Dear Admins of the Lemmy.world instance I am asking that you please consider defederating from the rammy.site instance as soon as possible as the admin is no where to be found and it has been taken over by right wing posters posting hateful messages. There are also other people posting large amounts of spam and creating empty communities. What was once a small hobby run general purpose instance has been turned over and made into a festering right wing hate filled breeding ground by the people from exploding-heads. The only recoarse left it seems is to defederate to prevent them from spreading hate to other instances.
PS. I already sent this message to multiple admins here, sorry about that I just felt it was urgent to make sure the message was sent before these people cause more damage.
To everyone who’s been telling OP off, claiming “free speech” and such: there’s still free speech. They can say whatever they want, but we don’t want to hear it. To correct myself: the majority of us don’t want to hear it. You have every right to convert instances if you disagree. Moderation is always going to be opinion-based; everyone has their own opinion of right and wrong.
So don’t talk about “free speech” and then wonder why you get downvoted into oblivion. We simply don’t want to have to deal with this nonsense. Keep in mind too that Lemmy doesn’t let you block an instance yet(AFAIK); it’s up to the instance admins. Just like a government, a user is going to pick the instance to best represent them. And just like a government, that instance will probably act in favor of the majority. So please just stop complaining. There is no plus to federating with rammy.site and frankly, we don’t need them.
They are not going to stop complaining. A lot of the folks that are on these instances that get blocked have alts or create new ones just to concern troll. It was obvious in this thread yesterday: “wow you defederated preemptively from hexbear but the obvious Anti-Trans right-wing instance stays? LW Admins must Nazi lovers and transphobes!” kind of posts. While in fact we were reaching out to the admin of rammy.site and having a talk/vote on how to proceed - even if it was obvious. This isn’t a one-man show and this isn’t a full time job it’s a hobby so it can take a while for everyone to get his or her vote in.
One of these trolls was an admin of hexbear who was dumb enough to use their name in their email address…
Another hexbear user was angry because I didn’t want to transfer a community over to her. She felt like she had the rights to [email protected] over the moderator who created it here on LW because she moderated the original community on reddit. She ask me to just hand it over to her and the reddit mods or rename the current existing one… After I denied to do that - but proposing the be the middle-man in the talks with the current moderator - she started saying “the community will not like that and they will react to this”.
So that’s another thing to keep in mind. I just ignore it now and ban the accounts because there is no talking or being reasonable with these people.
Honestly those ultra right-wingers are pretty bad but the ultra left-wingers are worse. And as a lefty that is pretty sad to see. But I’m probably not left enough for those on hexbear and still “imperialistic scum”.
The hexbear admin deleted most of their offense posts and then went on the Lemmy admin matrix chatroom saying how bad LW was to preemptively blocking hexbear, pretending to play nice. “It took them longer to defederate from exploding heads” so that must mean they are islamophobic, transphobic enablers."
As if it is not normal that you learn from your mistakes. Lemmy.World is less than 2 months old and we do what we think is best for this instance. We vote on these topics and then act. And we have no obligations to accept that kind of shitty behavior and have our users be confronted with it.
Thank you so much for your work moderating this instance, you and people like you are truly making lemmy a better place for all of us.
I am one of those persons that mentioned the hexbear situation here. I was not concern trolling and I find it a bit harsh to lump everyone under this umbrella term this way.
The fact is, historically, many social media platforms have been quick to act against radical left speech but very slow (even complacent) to act against right wing extremism. Society as a whole is mostly like this. So yes, I do have concerns even though I understand this is all very new. No offence was meant by mentioning the previous situation, but it made sense to do it then, to my mind at least.
Thank you for your work moderating this platform.
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Freedom of speech, not freedom of reach.
First time I read that, and it’s brilliant! It describes perfectly what’s happening.
If you came up with that on your own, congrats. If you read somewhere, thanks for sharing.
So don’t talk about “free speech” and then wonder why you get downvoted into oblivion.
Why? Because free speech! It’s super ironic to see people claim to support free speech above all else including human decency, and then go “Edit: All of you downvoting can eat shit and die, Lemmy is just like Reddit!!” Like dude, by your own standard people have the right to also be mad at you. You can’t say something like “free speech doesn’t care about your feelings” and then complain that people hurt your feelings.
People yelling freeze peach actually want to be free of consequences for their shitty opinions
I think the larger point is that hateful assholes are welcome to be hateful assholes online, but we aren’t required to help them do it.
Their freedom of speech doesn’t create an obligation for anyone to listen to them or grant them a platform.
Exactly. Also, saying you’re not allowed to exclude them from your spaces violates your freedom. Why should you be forced to interact with people who make you uncomfortable, especially in a social setting where everyone should find groups that they enjoy being with anyway?
If you censor comments the instance has no free speech. You are right about “your instance, your rules”, if you lurk to an instance read the instance and moderation rules, the power of a protocol as Lemmy you can just join an instance with or without free speech.
I am fine with people posting whatever. That said, let’s not confuse “I don’t want to subscribe” or “let’s not amplify” with “censorship”. Unless I misunderstand, nobody is trying to limit the right to post what you want. They are suggesting that there is enough divergence of preference between instances to “unsubscribe” as a group.
That’s why I joined unilem … they have a specific policy not to defederate from any instance … a policy with which I wholeheartedly agree. I’m not at all right wing, I hate Trump and I believe vaccines save lives. But I also believe that others have the absolute right to disagree. What’s more my beliefs are strong enough that I can handle seeing alternate opinions. What I absolutely don’t want is to spend my time in a echo chamber. You (and many others here) disagree and that’s fine too.
You can block any subs you dont want to see. Start clicking.
People should keep complaining though! Fine, Lemmy.world isn’t pro-freespeech, people should be aware so they can migrate to other instances.
Good, bye then. People who don’t understand free speech and think it excuses widespread bigotry are more than welcome to leave and go fuck themselves.
Here’s the thing: A person may have freedom of speech, but the people around them also have freedom to think they’re an asshole and stop listening or responding. Getting banned from social media is not an infringement of free speech, it’s other people exercising their freedom to not want you around them anymore.
Freedom of speech let’s other comments and ideas even if offensive, you have the freedom to ban with your own rules but it’s not a free speech instance.
Free speech means the government can’t stop you from saying something. It does not mean you have the right to be heard, or even to force people to listen, or that private companies (like Lemmy) can’t remove your ability to post to their platform. Hell, it doesn’t even mean you can say whatever you want without consequences, which can range from being blocked to being banned all the way up to being arrested if it’s a threat.
So, feel free to say whatever you want, just don’t be surprised when you lose your ability to post.
Wow I really regret going there to see if it’s that bad. It’s worse than I could have anticipated. Worse than r/theDonald ever got
Well, I’m late to the party, but it seems like rammy.site is failing to load for me.
If it’s as bad as it sounds from the quotes I read, then it should definitely be defederated from. Any instance peddling hate and/or propoganda needs to be defederated immediately. They need to be denied audiences.
They defederated hexbear preemptively. Why not this one ? This needs to happen.
They said it was because hexbear was pushing an ideology and therefore had nothing of value to add to the conversation
Well neither does this one. Good on the admins for taking action and defederating.
I understand. But IMO this is a huge problem with federated server models: you’re making that choice for everyone on the server.
Now keep in mind I don’t know what they’re posting on rammy lemmy instance. If they’re doing some KKK shit over there I probably agree with you. But I’d say if it’s just right wing Trumpies I’d say it’s wrong to do that over political spectrum.
unless they’re breaking standard Internet boilerplate rules I don’t think it’s a good idea. Free speech is a good thing but it always comes with idiots. It’s a package deal. Let that reside at a user level. Remember there are extremists on the left just like there is the right.
Edit: One might consider too whether some of these are political propaganda accounts. This should be looked into especially now that AI is so widely available especially.
I’d say it’s not quite KKK level content but it’s not very far off, their leader said that he would ban anyone promoting violence but he also said it was because we would use it to vilify right-wingers which doesn’t make me think he’s against it, just trying to save face. It he weren’t he probably would be encouraging violence. So it’s right on the edge of being KKK level.
Also by the way the defederation has already happened, lemmy.world is no longer connected to rammy which is why I’m replying from a lemmy.ca account.
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What do you get from defederating them? If you are concerned with these idiots go there and teach them what’s good, you will do a big favor for everyone. As long as they can’t censor you their stupid ideas will never win on good.
You’re presuming they operate on good faith and facts and logic. I don’t know how you can think that after seeing all the anti science idiots during COVID.
Honestly lemmy federation should be a whitelist activity not a blacklist activity. It is with everything else I know of.
Just defederate everyone and make world standalone lmao.
Ego feels nice huh?
You don’t seem to understand why I’m pushing defederation, do you, or you agree with those right-wing nazis over there, if it’s the second one why don’t you just go join them then, your instance is federated with both rammy and their home community exploding-heads.
To the more level headed people out there I understand that defederation is a very extreme measure not to be taken lightly, I also understand that some instances don’t defederate from political instances (which is why I did not and will not reach out to lemm.ee or any other instances that federate with EH about this issue) this is however an extreme circumstance as an instance is unmoderated and currently being overrun by members from an instance that this current one (both .world and .ca) have defederated and they are using rammy as a proxy to push their agenda. Maybe some of you may agree with what they are saying but the instance operators and majority of their users don’t and thus it is up to them to defederate.
Since Rammy’s admin is either unavailible or doesn’t care about his communities anymore (shown by how it’s un-moderated) defederation is the best option moving forward to maintain a healthy instance and avoid potential legal and security issues that might arrive from being connected to an unmaintained instance.
Ya ya tl dr
Right wing are nazis and left wing are angels
I am a proud member of lemmy.ca (and lemmy.world) and let me tell you I have no idea what rammy.site is not the other one that was defederared from.
What I will tell you, as a left leaning person, is nothing of value is gained from crying wolf every time a person or people disagree with your beliefs even, and let me be perfectly clear even if your beliefs are the better ones.
Op. Step away from the keyboard and from Lemmy and get some fresh air.
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No, he values free speech even if he doesn’t agree with what is spoken.
I think we can trust OP here.
I went to take a look and it was pretty terrible. Blatant racism, sexism, homophobia and far right extremist propaganda.
It looks like a concentration of posts from /b/ on 4chan without the child porn.
We shouldn’t tolerate intolerance. I think it should be defederated.
Not disagreeing but OP and their vocal counterparts are clearly unhinged. Like does anyone else not see them behaving no different than what they’re purporting to defederate from? I mean I was not calling anyone names. I was trying to take a level headed middle of the road approach and very clearly OP needs to step away from the keyboard because they are waaaay too wound up over this.
For me, this other Lemmy instance like you said probably needs to go but I’d argue the same thing about OP. They’re opposite ends of a spectrum and equally unhealthy.
The OP of the post is powerfulTurtle. Who are you referring to?
Edit: Never mind. They replied to you comment.
You clearly don’t understand this situation at all if you think that this is about beliefs or that I’m a liar. Either that or you actually agree with those people over there (if so why don’t you go join them then, nazis love to get new recruits).
The reason I made this post and many others on other instances is because these people on rammy are posting incredibly hostile transphobic content which is dangerous because it both causes emotional harm to people, but also can indirectly lead to physical harm (there is a proven link between transphobic propaganda and acts of violence towards people who are trans, look trans, “act trans”, etc.). So this is not something to be taken lightly by any means.
Now the problem ultimately is solved because lemmy.world, lemmy.ca, and a few others have already defederated rammy.site for the issues I mentioned here and in my post. However it was important that I made this post to spread awareness of the issue so that action could be taken in a timely manner.
I get what you are saying but you have to understand where we are. Yes, hate can propagate online. Yes it’s important to fight that.
I am a firm believer that isolating anyone in a bubble regardless of how good the intentions are is not a good thing.
You fight ignorance with knowledge. You fight hate with love.
If you’re in a room with a Nazi leaving the room does not make them stop being a Nazi nor does it prevent them from continuing their beliefs.
That said, I completely understand the feeling of needing to defederate from instances like that.
As much as I would probably disagree with their messages and posts, would they not do the same to us if the positions were to be switched?
I personally take a stance closer to “all deserve a connected platform and if you don’t like it, block them” as even if I might disagree with them, they still deserve a platform.
The beauty of the Fediverse is that no one is forcing you to choose/stay on your instance. If they want to talk about that stuff, they have their own instances for it. Lemmy.world is meant to be a comfortable instance for all, and if that means defederating, so be it.
No one “deserves” a platform. People should have the right to free speech, but equal volume has never been a guarantee. That’s up to your community.
So the aim is to make lemmy.world a left wing braindead echochamber? Thanks, I will make a new account on that instance for the sake of freedom
Sure thing. Leave lemmy.world and never come back. 🙏
Nope I won’t. I will dwell on both sides and haunt each of you
Naa, your stupid ass just got blocked.
You won’t if the admins ban you for being associated with these bigots
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Oh I’m not threatening you sweetie, I’m just saying that if you continue it’s very likely the admins will ban you for being associated with these people, they may see you as a liability due to the fact that you’re also a participant over on exploding-heads
Can’t deny it, you said it yourself.
Also I’m not sharing anything that wasn’t already public knowledge, Federated DMs on Lemmy aren’t secure any instance admins can see them, meaning any one with a PC capable of running docker can view your federated DMs.
No the aim is to keep Bigots and Nazis out of Lemmy.world by cutting off the instance they’re using to propagate their toxic shit to the rest of the Fediverse. Honestly you sound just as toxic as them, maybe you should go hang out on their instance and not spread your toxicity here.
Bigots and Nazis have become subjective words in recent years. You consider yourself holier than thou, you think you are all perfect? Too bad, that’s what an echochamber does to a human mind. You already have the symptoms
How does a comment like this get so many downwotes, it really is an echochamber
Because blocking intolerant folks is a must in order to have a civilized conversation. It has nothing to do with creating echo chambers or being left/right wing.
I did not notice that conversations here uncivilized because they were federated. Nobody would even notice if he didn’t go on an outrage.
That’s why I hide votes on my lemmy client. I don’t want them trying to psychologically manipulate me like on reddit
More like you don’t want to confront the reality of your shitty takes?
Bye!
Thanks for telling me what to do. I will do the opposite and stay here as well
Please stay here!
If a “left wing braindead echochamber” is the opposite of that shit over there, then it sounds great.
I wonder if they realize how much of a self own it is for them to say that not tolerating racism or bigotry or Nazis or anti science bullshit makes something a “left wing braindead echo chamber”.
Probably not, but it’s fucking hilarious.
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