We should make owning residential, single family real estate for commercial purposes illegal. You own it, you live in it, don’t live in it, don’t own it. That would make gobbling up houses and renting them out unprofitable and force cities to open up multifamily development
That sounds nice in theory but what happens when you want to sell your house?
The only potential buyers would be people who either currently rent or are ready to sell their old house as soon as they buy yours.
What if someone wants to fix it up first? Nope, they can’t do it. It will cut out the flippers but we’ve also just cut out all the renovators and restorers.
We could do something like this (and it may not be a terrible idea) but there will definitely be a cost. If we add that law, all the people who currently own homes (that includes both investors and owner occupiers) will see the value of their real estate holdings drop. In the US, over 65% of people own their homes and for most of them, their home is their single biggest asset. Richer people can diversify more so while this law wouldn’t hurt the 35% who don’t currently own homes, it will disproportionately affect the poorer end of the 65% homeowners (who have proportionately more of their savings tied up in their home).
If we don’t also address that problem at the same time we’ll create a cohort of people who can’t afford to retire because we killed their plan of downsizing when their kids move out and living off the difference.
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Do you not maintain the things that you own just because there will never be a day where it is worth 10x what you paid for it?
Btw I really want to meet these flippers and landlords who are maintaining their homes. Every time I have dealt with one they are obsessed with making it look like the house is great, not actually maintaining it. Oh wow you sprayed cookie dough smell before showing it, hey check out that black mold in the basement that stupidly has fucking sheetrock.
The only potential buyers would be people who either currently rent or are ready to sell their old house as soon as they buy yours.
What if someone wants to fix it up first? Nope, they can’t do it. It will cut out the flippers but we’ve also just cut out all the renovators and restorers.
Not at all. They can buy and renovate all they want. They just have to sell it afterwards rather than rent it out.
Then you end up with a lot of properties on the market for millions while no one lives in them.
Like now
Why would anyone renovate a property if it’s just gonna sit on the market out of reach of potential customers? I would hope that investors would be smarter than that. Like we’re saying, homes should be for living, not for investing. If there’s no pressing need to renovate, then great. Don’t. Whoever wants to buy it as is now can. And if they want to they can renovate what they want at their own pace.
Fair point. So we cap profit at 10% above purchase price, and hit the renovators with 90% taxes if the home hasn’t sold in, say, six months.
We could. Why would anyone want to make those investments once we’ve cut off all their profit potential?
Investors chase profits. We can cut off their profits but when we do that 2 things happen; some of them just leave the industry and some of them break the law to try to get around the regulations. Almost nobody just eats the loss and continues investing.
Exactly.
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No one ha said that they can’t own more than one. They just can’t rent one while living in the other. The vacant one stays vacant.
And cut into profits!? How very un-American of you. String’em up boys!!
I live in a rented house, and I’ve rented out a house I owned because I wanted to move and I was underwater on my mortgage. I get where you’re coming from but I do think there should be exceptions. Maybe just capping the rent at 110% of the mortgage payment or 0.5% of the appraised value would be enough to allow some rentals while discouraging people to buy houses just to rent them out.
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Foreign investors and real estate speculators are squeezing the middle class dry. The only options out there if you don’t want to live in the middle of bumfuck nowhere are either really really old properties, really really shitty properties, or too far above your means to be able to afford it.
Renting should be the most affordable option, yet if you actually look at the numbers, you are paying almost as much as the value of an entire mortgage with one monthly rent check in some areas. Properties built in the 60’s that are falling apart and lacking modern amenities should not be going for $2,500/month, but that’s the reality I live in right now. I’m on the fucking brink and I’d do anything to have a chance at climbing on the real estate ladder right about now. I don’t care if my house never gains a cent in value, at least it would be mine.
It’s been the case in my town for decades that a mortgage is much less expensive than rent. The only way renting makes sense if you don’t plan to live here more than a few years or don’t want to deal with maintenance and taxes.
If foreign investors were a serious issue, local legislation would have already solved the issue. This is all about domestic greed.
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Meanwhile Ontario removed rent control on all buildings newer than 2018 and now people find their rents going up by 40% over a year with no recourse because the government is favouring the developers over all others, and no government level wants to mandate what developers should build.
Using SF and NYC as the main examples kinda distorts things as these are both some of the most expensive, developed, and dense parts of the country where development costs are staggeringly high. Something not working there doesn’t mean it doesn’t work anywhere else. The rate of increase in property/rental costs is unsustainable.
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It did for the folks using it.
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Please explain how.
Are you an economist?
Or did you just see a supply and demand curve and think that’s all there is to it?
If you studied economics beyond the 101 level, you’d know the supply and demand curve is a theoretical concept that doesn’t actually exist in the real world because the requirements for it are impossible. Supply and demand most definitely exist, but it’s more of a fuzzy force kind of thing not clean lines on a graph. Realistically, it’s more like fuzzy splotches on the graph instead of clean lines.
And there are multiple levels to it as well. Cities have to compete with other cities to attract businesses and businesses would prefer to be in a city where they don’t have to pay someone $100K per year to sweep the floors. Which might happen if that’s the pay level required to live in a city. You could get into a yo-yo situation where a city becomes unaffordable, people and businesses leave, causing the rent prices to drop, attracting people an businesses back, causing it to by unaffordable again, etc, etc. This instability comes at an economic cost that’s greater than the inefficiencies caused by rent control.
You see an economy isn’t just one simple supply and demand curve. You might want to consider that economists might be aware of some factors you aren’t aware of.
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The point is to provide relief for those who can’t afford rent.
Please show me actual economic modelling using real world data of the negative impacts of rent control. You know, something that isn’t just theoretical extrapolations based on the non-existent supply and demand curve done by someone who spent too much time reading propaganda on mises.org
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What is that link? So over a decade ago, 40 people that I don’t know indicated their opinion about rent control on a website. That’s your proof? Of what exactly? What was the methodology in which they were selected? Come on, some basic science please!
At any rate that’s not an economic model involving real world data. It’s just a poll on website that 40 people responded to.
And I did take Econ 101. And also Econ 201 where they explain the requirements for supply and demand: -Free movement of labour -Infinite number of competing companies -Perfect knowledge -No barriers to entry
In other words, things that are impossible in the real world.
Looking at a supply and demand curve and thinking you know about economics is like reading Act 1 of Romeo and Juliet and thinking you’re a PhD in English Literature. Supply and demand is theoretically how things are supposed to work which you learn about in Econ 101. Beyond Econ 101, most of economics is about why it doesn’t work like that in the real world what regulations are needed to approximate something vaguely resembling supply and demand. And sometimes a regulation that moves away from supply and demand in one market can get us closer to a reasonable supply and demand approximation in other markets. As I mentioned before, rent control helps the labour market, which is kinda important.
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Ok, so you got nothing but appeal to authority, and the “authority” is a decade old poll that 40 people responded to on a janky website?
Apparently this IGM forum is something paid for by the Chicago Stock Exchange. I don’t see any indication of the methodology they used to select these particular people. Given the source of their funding, it makes me a little suspicious. $1.5 million to 40 economists to answer an email once a week? Was the Chicago Stock Exchange paying that money for honest answers or were they paying for the answers they wanted to hear?
And they don’t seem to do any macroeconomic analysis. Methinks it’s just some bullshit meant to influence public opinion. I guess it worked on you.
an economy isn’t just one simple supply and demand curve.
Aggregate supply and aggregate demand.
Boom. Roasted.
This instability comes at an economic cost that’s greater than the inefficiencies caused by rent control.
It’s extremely difficult to get someone who only understands Econ 101 to grasp the idea of competing economic inefficiencies. Conservative think tanks have been on a rather successful crusade to ensure that de-regulation is only good. So, it’s difficult to convince someone that higher taxes on “job creators” leads to a better, less expensive life for everybody else.
Yeah and aggregate demand is basically impossible to model because people be crazy.
And sure, rent control could cause issues in the long run, but in the long run we’re all dead anyway. Other, bigger, problems will likely happen sooner than something like rent control having a significant economic impact.
Rent control doesn’t fix the problem of inequitable ownership of housing or the bad incentives that prevent the building of more housing or the lack of support for public housing. Rent control is a bad bandaid
It helps remove the incentive to buy up all of the single family homes. The calculus is pretty simple -
- buy a house
- rent it
- pay the mortgage, insurance, and maintenance with the overinflated rental costs because everyone colluded to jack up rental prices across the board
- eventually own the house entirely off of the back of renters
- repeat
Renting a home shouldn’t cost enough for that cycle to be self sustaining.
I work in municipal development.
100% of the single-family home projects that have been proposed in my area for the last year have been rental-only communities.
Like - they don’t even want to give the houses individual water meters. They want to hook them all together, which means they can’t even be converted down the line to something else without digging up all the damn infrastructure.
I’ve visited some friends in those rental only neighborhoods. The lawns are all trashed. The neighborhood was less than three years old but it was already sliding toward a slum because of the clear lack of ownership by the occupants.
Honestly I can’t believe that part of the rent didn’t go toward neighborhood wide lawn care.
I don’t think it actually fixes that. Rent control numbers are in the hands of politicians who may just act as toadies for landlords. Maybe they’ll control rent on the higher side some but ultimately they have an incentive to keep that cash flowing.
The only way rent covers mortgage is if a double rental unit.
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All I can say is the absolutely shit apt I lived in in South Florida, wasn’t maintained, gross and expensive for 2300 a month wanted to raise our rent to almost 2400 a month for an apt that should cost 1600(being generous).
Fuck corporate landlords
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Why don’t we just move into vacant homes? Don’t pay rent or buy, just move in. There’s so many in my area that if I did get caught and kicked out of one I could just go down the street to the next.
If a space goes unrented long enough it should be repossessed from the landlord. The law should work both ways. Manifest destiny but for homes.
Then you get arrested for breaking and entering. We are really good at keeping people out of places not so good at putting them into places.
I think all leases should be month-to-month. Making it easier to move would help renters shop around, move if their landlord is shit, move if their neighbors are shit, move if they get a new job, etc.
Time to organize
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