The one valid reason not to vote Dem/Repub this cycle has been to not support genocide, which ultimately supports genocide except the voter can dissociate their vote from the outcome. Other than that, I haven’t seen any other valid arguments to vote 3rd party, particularly when looking at what those candidates would do if they won. Holding the presidency with all of Congress against you means you can’t get anything done, so it’s a waste of 4 years.
The argument of bad faith you’ve made sounds awfully like the beginning of a slippery slope argument.
One important and vocalized point is to hold Democrats accountable for their actions. This isn’t limited to genocide.
Because as things stand, Dems can get away with anything as long as they are marginally less terrible than Republicans. And as the goalposts move every time, situation gets worse and worse.
Voting third party might force Democrats to actually implement changes they propose in order to attract more third party voters to ultimately win the election.
In general I agree that voting can be used to hold candidates accountable for their policies. In this case, I still don’t see how holding the less terrible of the two accountable isn’t tantamount to helping the worse. No one knows why you voted 3rd party, just that you did. If the outcome is that Repubs win, the simplest answer is that most people prefer hard right policies, which is opposite the goals of most 3rd parties (except perhaps libertarianism).
Less terrible of the two is something I think most people would follow unless indoctrinated to think the more viable option is worse. Having constant conversations about holding democrats accountable with nary a peep about how Repubs are worse leans into this viewpoint. At best it’s bad optics. At worst it’s intentional to secure a far right win.
You can always be vocal about why you didn’t vote Democrat. Voting does not mean you are restricted from saying who you voted for, protesting their decisions, and organizing.
“Less terrible of the two” is a path to gradually degrade the rights and quality of life for everyone.
If Dems are not forced to change, we won’t see much improvement. For as long as they’re not pressured by anything but literal fascism, they’re better off serving their sponsors than their own electorate.
A fairly small percentage of Democratic voters vocally saying “fuck you” is enough to force Dems to either change and finally deliver on their promises or lose. Let’s hope they’ll be able to do the former.
So what I meant was that I had learned “today” (yesterday) that people still say dumb shit that makes no sense when pressed against reality, regardless of the fact that there been enough proof for them to know it’s incorrect.
The underlying point that was made was that while knowing everything you said was wrong, and saying it anyway, illustrates the bad-faith in your message.
Do you seriously think that some grassroots movement of Stein/West supporters somehow have things right and correct while everyone else is just too stupid to understand? Come on man. Have you not noticed that NEITHER of them give two shits about anything three years out of every four?
In fact, NO Green Party candidate does a fucking thing between elections to bring this change they program you to demand.
My message is clearly in good faith, and you just try to take it down by stating that I “know it’s wrong”.
No, it is not wrong.
Notice how I didn’t state my support for any third party in particular. I do not believe they can change the game, nor am I blind to imagine their candidates have any sort of influence.
What I do say is that Democrats should lose their electorate when they don’t deliver on their promises - or else they don’t have to do it, really.
Under those circumstances, voting for a third party allows to keep them accountable, while not giving your vote straight to Republicans, either.
The one valid reason not to vote Dem/Repub this cycle has been to not support genocide, which ultimately supports genocide except the voter can dissociate their vote from the outcome. Other than that, I haven’t seen any other valid arguments to vote 3rd party, particularly when looking at what those candidates would do if they won. Holding the presidency with all of Congress against you means you can’t get anything done, so it’s a waste of 4 years.
The argument of bad faith you’ve made sounds awfully like the beginning of a slippery slope argument.
One important and vocalized point is to hold Democrats accountable for their actions. This isn’t limited to genocide.
Because as things stand, Dems can get away with anything as long as they are marginally less terrible than Republicans. And as the goalposts move every time, situation gets worse and worse.
Voting third party might force Democrats to actually implement changes they propose in order to attract more third party voters to ultimately win the election.
In general I agree that voting can be used to hold candidates accountable for their policies. In this case, I still don’t see how holding the less terrible of the two accountable isn’t tantamount to helping the worse. No one knows why you voted 3rd party, just that you did. If the outcome is that Repubs win, the simplest answer is that most people prefer hard right policies, which is opposite the goals of most 3rd parties (except perhaps libertarianism).
Less terrible of the two is something I think most people would follow unless indoctrinated to think the more viable option is worse. Having constant conversations about holding democrats accountable with nary a peep about how Repubs are worse leans into this viewpoint. At best it’s bad optics. At worst it’s intentional to secure a far right win.
You can always be vocal about why you didn’t vote Democrat. Voting does not mean you are restricted from saying who you voted for, protesting their decisions, and organizing.
“Less terrible of the two” is a path to gradually degrade the rights and quality of life for everyone.
If Dems are not forced to change, we won’t see much improvement. For as long as they’re not pressured by anything but literal fascism, they’re better off serving their sponsors than their own electorate.
A fairly small percentage of Democratic voters vocally saying “fuck you” is enough to force Dems to either change and finally deliver on their promises or lose. Let’s hope they’ll be able to do the former.
TIL people still think this ignorant crap actually makes sense.
Please elaborate
So what I meant was that I had learned “today” (yesterday) that people still say dumb shit that makes no sense when pressed against reality, regardless of the fact that there been enough proof for them to know it’s incorrect.
The underlying point that was made was that while knowing everything you said was wrong, and saying it anyway, illustrates the bad-faith in your message.
Do you seriously think that some grassroots movement of Stein/West supporters somehow have things right and correct while everyone else is just too stupid to understand? Come on man. Have you not noticed that NEITHER of them give two shits about anything three years out of every four?
In fact, NO Green Party candidate does a fucking thing between elections to bring this change they program you to demand.
But everyone else is wrong, right?
My message is clearly in good faith, and you just try to take it down by stating that I “know it’s wrong”.
No, it is not wrong.
Notice how I didn’t state my support for any third party in particular. I do not believe they can change the game, nor am I blind to imagine their candidates have any sort of influence.
What I do say is that Democrats should lose their electorate when they don’t deliver on their promises - or else they don’t have to do it, really.
Under those circumstances, voting for a third party allows to keep them accountable, while not giving your vote straight to Republicans, either.