- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or # to comment.
As always…
Liberals take heed: this is where reflexive Russophobia as a guiding principle will lead you
Ah, harc my beloathed… I just love (/s) the Polish anarkids
poland is a state of mind
Now I see that he swung by here to get dunked on, lmao
I live in germany, and the Israeli movings in Syria aren’t “a top story” in several news. It’s like: “we better not talk about this”.
Israel also bombed the Syrian Navy, sinking 15 docked vessels. In self defense, of course, because those ships would be used against them. /s
I love being gaslit I love being gaslit I love being gaslit I love being gaslit
ITT: People becoming the very same pocket shirt, horseshoe-pattern baldness Cold War boomers screaming red-faced about Russia that their parents and grandparents were. Sad!
“I would have survived Generalplan Ost through demonstrating my superior hatred of the Russians!
”That reminded me of a Polish poem, though i forgot who wrote it, it goes something like that:
“Dziś nas straszycie komunistami, tak jak przed laty
Straszono naszych ojców nazwiskiem demokraty”“You scare us with communists, like in the old time
our fathers were scared with the democrat name”The fact the Israel does war crimes does not excuse Russia doing war crimes. Both should be punished.
if you think these are anywhere on the same scale or barbarity then you’re extremely misinformed about the world. Israel killed more civilians in a month then Russia did in 3 years.
War crimes are war crimes. It’s not a contest who collects more or collects less. You make one that should be enough to get your economy crippled by others. Sadly, one is not punished enough, another not at all.
ok everyone in all wars ever are equally guilty of war crimes. Nazis? Exactly the same as Native Americans defending their homeland. It’s all the same. War crimes are war crimes.
This is the brainrot of the liberal mind. The mechanism of “punishment” is more war, from the warmonger imperialists. You cannot ‘punish’ russia without cheering on western imperialist war. It’s zero sum.
What are you talking about? The mechanism of punishment is sanctions. Isolation. Crippling economy. Not war. War is the choice of Russia. It can stop whenever it wants. Nobody is preventing it.
sanctions
Sanctions are an instrument of war, they kill millions. They are one of the primary tools of western imperialists. If you support western imperialist sanctions, you support their warmongering machine.
Isolation
How’s that going for you lmao? West has only isolated themselves by revealing to the world their nazi loving, ISIS funding genocidal freakish natures. Applauding Nazis in their parliaments, cheering on Al Qaeda taking over Syria with Ukrainian support. You are just letting it all out and the world is seeing it.
Crippling economy
This is just another part of sanctions, see paragraph 1.
All of this is war or lead up and escalation to war. You want to “de-escalate by escalating” to “punish” the “bad countries” because you have a paternalistic, imperialistic mindset where you believe western nations hold the right to punish others.
It’s hilarious how everyone of you NATOID leftists pretend to be above it all and “both sides are bad” but when we press you enough, you spout Kissinger-esque neocon dogma like you’ve been trained.
One of these is the enemy of you nation that you’ve been taught your whole life to warmonger against.
The other is your ally that your taxes pay for, and you supply the weapons for to commit genocide.
You have more of a responsibility to confront one than the other. Do you not understand this, or do you just like playing dumb to both sides everything and wash away your own guilt? You realize playing into your nations’ imperialist warmongering narratives AND defending Israeli genocide with “both sides” crap doubles your sins, it doesn’t cancel them out.
I’m not from us. My government does not contribute to Isreal at all. We hoever contribute as much aid to Palestine and Ukraine as we can. I’m not from a rich country, so it’s a drop in a bucket…
if you are from part of the imperialist bloc of the west, yes you to contribute directly and indirectly to the western project of colonization.
If not, it’s sad to see you’ve let western imperialist narratives colonize your mind
Removed by mod
What the fuck is wrong with you
scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds, i’m very good at identifying and scratching them lol
Homophobia is your only response because you know i’m right and you’ve failed your revolutionary duty.
Nah, some of us just simply were to Russia, or come from communities that have dealt with their imperialism since a century or two…
eat shit
Nah, you can finish yours.
dealt with their imperialism since a century or two…
Right, tsarist feudal Russia, socialist Russia, and capitalist Russia are all the same states, because it’s just baked in to their nasty, mean orc nature.
You forgot Soviet Russia (as in pre-WW2). And the fact Putin actually reinforced his claims with some 400 year old territorial claim.
But from our perspective if the people oppressing us speak the same language, and have a capital in the same city over 200 years thats a sign something might be up with what they believe in under whatever facade stands there.
Do you come from russia?
No, form an ex Soviet satellite state. Been Ukraine a dozen times - typical eastern European shithole, worse off than my place tho. Been two or three times to Russia and that’s a whole different story… Had a gun held to my head by FSB (while they were stealing our camera), was offered to be shot on the internal border by the soldiers another time. Stayed at Vladikavkaz and Moscow and do appreciate the warm cyberpunk-postapocalyptic vibe. Meet the most broken and ethically corrupt people Ive seen in quite a few years of travels (and I’ve been living for most of the last 15 years with Bealarusians and Russians who escaped that). Altogether a lovely place, but would prefer it doesn’t visit my country again, its shit enough as it is.
And you? Been there, or do you only gaggle RT and believe what the TV told you?
edit: had to correct mobile-typed gibberish.
oh look a russophobic reactionary pole
Mate, I got a pretty big bookshelf full of Russian authors and could name more Russian bands that I listen to regularly then you heard of most likely. Miss me with the russiophobia bullshit. You even know any actual Russians? Ever asked them about their country?
Come to America, you will meet so many racist white guys who love rap
Oh, ok, then clearly, I’m hiding my deep hatred for the other group of Slavs then the one I belong to, but not just the eastern ones, as I do seem to be living with Belorussians, and working with Ukrainians, it’s only the ones supporting this one particular imperialist state. Just a simple racist, and I only let it slip by asking you people to prove anything of the bullshit you’re spilling here like the mad fucked up sect you and your mates here are clearly. You got me.
look i appreciate ruzzian culture, i just want those orcs exterminated and put into their place
Nah, I’d prefer that Russia doesn’t invade my region again. ~150 years of occupation was enough for us. Same goes for our neighboring countries.
That’s a whole lot of words to say “capitalist Russia sucks in the same ways as every other place we’ve destabilized, and I have done no inquiry into the causality behind why because it confirms my priors to simply believe that “Russians” (which russians?) are just ontologically bad somehow”
Granting your nazi ass a seriousness it doesn’t deserve for a second to talk to the other libs, this is where nationalism brain fails as a way of viewing the world. All you can talk about is Russia this and Ukraine that, as if we’re talking about hive minds. All liberals do this, implying a unity that doesn’t exist to paper over the reality of class warfare that actually drives these wars. As long as your analysis is built on assumptions of countries as single unified beings (a fairy tale for children) you will always fail to grasp the real causes of state actions.
Nah, I’m just pointing out it’s a deeply corrupt, deeply violent authoritarian state. Been to China, been to some “3rd world” countries, and my own was a bloody neo-lib laboratory on the verge of collapse for most of my youth years and it’s still all very different from Russia. Ukraine is very much an effect of destabilization efforts, that I could easily agree. But Russia? It had a system that it’s leaders run to the ground themselves, a system that starved the “breadbasket” of Europe, and that went bankrupt despite having every possible resource earth could give. In the process it also destroyed the humanity of it’s loyal subjects and corrupted the rest of forced them to run. Maybe it’s just me, but it would seem to be the theme of any Russian counter-culture text and song over the lat 40 years as well, have a song, or another one. And now it has a government that reignites old nationalist and threatens to either invade or nuclear annihilate my country about every month (in voices of state figures, not some randos).
Fan fact in calling me a nazi in defense of Russia (apart from the fact I’m a well known antifa organiser); a family member was in the military intelligence (of the underground “Home Army”) over WW2. He took part in some wild missions, like obtaining V2 rocket and delivering it to allies (as the Soviets were still cooperating with Nazis, would have be closer…). The guy went through Warsaw Uprising, the biggest antifascist uprising of WW2 (and arguably the most mindless suicide attack on nazis at a country level scale). But he survived both that and the concentration camp afterwards. And than he barely survived half a year of torture in soviet run prison. He did so only, as they never figured out his rank, he’d be shot as all other officers were. Never recovered from what they did to him tho. Wasn’t the gestapo, wasn’t plain fighting in a guerilla warfare against the nazis for over 5 years, it was the commissars that got him. Impressively that’s the type of “anti-nazism” you favor, still.
If only there was a term for believing everyone that doesn’t share your exact vision of the world is an enemy to be dehumanized and destroyed…So anyway - fuck you, and enjoy the rest of the evening in your own shit. I’m off for a walk in a lovely snow covered hills.
This is some professional level obliviousness, willful ignorance, and weaponized misunderstanding on display. Bravo.
Sorry, your right. I must stand corrected; by the time Polish underground went V2 shopping Soviets were not best friends with Nazis anymore.
Here, have some context. You guys cant stand the fact, that someone might be anti-imperialist; anti-US but also anti-Russian imperialism? Is it that hard to comprehend?
Please, tell us more about how the Soviet Union was itching to join the Anti-Comintern Pact.
Ive no idea what tankie conspiracy your referencing right now, im not that much into this lore.
It’s different outlets as well, you see. PBS doesn’t have a material about the most recent attack, but pretty much every recent material they have is negative for Israel, two straight out discussing genocide. Which the Russians also attempt to commit against Ukrainians denying them their right for self–determination, my dear Russian friend.
war is not the same as genocide, Russia has deliberately avoided hitting civilian targets and allowed evacuations. More civilians killed by Israel in a month than by Russia in a much broader war over 3 years. Israel are purposeful genocidal child killers. Russians are professionally prosecuting a conventional war.
war is not the same as genocide, Russia has deliberately avoided hitting civilian targets and allowed evacuations.
According to whom, Russia Today?
More civilians killed by Israel in a month than by Russia in a much broader war over 3 years
Source for this stat please, cuz just from what I’m seeing that’s such an absurd lie I’m amazed you actually try to push it.
Israel are purposeful genocidal child killers
True.
Russians are professionally prosecuting a conventional war.
https://t.me/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/42094 - using open channel cheap radios and getting slaughtered or https://t.me/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/42053 using taxis to evacuate the wounded? That’s a Russian mil blogger in a span of few days. There’s thousands of examples like that if you just pull your head out of your ass and actually read anything else than propaganda. Seriously, even just read the Russian millblogers directly. Russian soldiers are mistreated to such a degree that it is genuinely sad to hear it. They are as much hated for their crimes as they are despised for their competency with their utterly criminal leadership.
Browse though some of this; https://mastodon.social/@ChrisO_wiki - some sources I can easily accept as likely western propaganda, but most is sourced from Russian channels directly. Have fun reading about the professionalism of Russian army.Oh, you’ve seen a Russian generals take on the whole Syrian affair? https://video.echelon.pl/w/mmbpbaAADwnu7K1tA7iGnv
two straight out discussing genocide
Wow it only took them two years to admit it, huh, wonder what changed
PBS? Ive no idea of their reporting over last two years and honestly neither care nor believe you do.
shut up liberal
Or what you gonna cry?
denying them their right for self–determination
You mean Obomba and then-VP Joe Bellend at the end of 2013 denied Ukraine the right to elect their own president
Yeah, the next was was air dropped, and so the next one. And neither caused anywhere near the same outrage as the russian puppet with his golden shitter and a party train. Wonder how could that be explained.
You don’t have right wing media funded by western billionaires driving the temperature constantly upwards in your country?
Our conservative right wing media was mostly funded by our Kremlin-aligned government for most of the last decade, and of course they did. A Russian influence agent is running a Rwanda style hate radio/tv fundamentalist catholic empire here as well for that very reason. The neo-con/“liberal” media are western funded and mostly busy with trying to get their guys into power in a classic bi-partisan manner. But what does that change for Ukrainian politics? Ukrainians are supported by most of the nation in spite of political divides, even the fascist nationalists had to claim they are supporting refugees not to fall out of favor.
Kremlin-aligned government
Me when I want to make having completely normal relations with a directly neighboring country sound sinister, when everyone knows that a Ukraine with true self determination obviously welcomes an administration installed by a US backed coup in order to use the country as a forward outpost/cannon fodder in their ceaseless aggression and military encirclement of their geopolitical targets.
The only part of Russia Poland neighbors is a military base enclave. And your “everyone” is your sect that will attack any division from your firmly held beliefs particularly one asking for evidence as showcased here over and over.
Oh and the alignment meant was mostly in authoritarian control over media, judiciary, level of corruption, blocking any public hearings of new laws, supercharging the parliamentary process to stifle opposition or any discussion of new law, unprecedented (since the old regime collapse) usage of surveillance against opposition, usage of far right paramilitary groups against mass feminist protests and so on. You know policies more popular in Moscow than anywhere else.
Might be the reason why Kremlin supports far-right parties all over Europe and in US, and you people are willful enablers of that.You are either very credulous or intentionally engaging in bad faith, and I don’t much care to figure out which
Well it’s explained very easily.
Double standards, white supremacy, western chauvinism, the
Major Western media outlets were hyperventilating over the war in Ukraine being fought against a “developed Western nation” with it not being a “Middle Eastern country”. This was literally verbatim on major outlets and I personally saw the fascistic rhetoric play out against the refugees fleeing Obomba’s drones from 10 years ago, in contrast.
Or take the Nordstream gas pipeline bombings 2 years ago. Once it was figured out that AmeriKKKans blew up the pipelines, it was swept under the rug. Had Russia been the culprit, people (especially here in Estonia) would be screaming about it nonstop still. BTW, my energy/communal fees are literally like €70 higher because of this.
The people who were fanatically chanting “Slava Ukraini” are the exact same people recording themselves blowing up children and apartment towers in Gaza with their iPhone 15 Pro Max, while also making thinly-veiled (or even open) bomb threats over “the hostages”.
Oh and “Slava Ukraini” is in a semi-literal way written with the blood of Palestinian children.
Death to AmeriKKKa
I remember how everyone in my country who have opinions for a living were clutching their pearls saying “war in Europe” as if it was orders of magnitude worse than war everywhere else.
It’s a Ukrainian who is suspected of sabotaging the pipeline.
it was Americans and if you believe otherwise you are literally braindead
Oh really? I can’t imagine Ukraine having the means to sabotage it, given the location being near Poland. Meanwhile Bellend (and the US in general) had very clear motives and the means to sabotage it so the EU would be forced to buy much more expensive LNG from AmeriKKKans.
Either way, it’s not hard to see why there’s no outrage over the fact.
Actually Poland and Ukraine had a much clearer motive, the only other piplines cross there. Also here you have Russian generals take on the issue: https://video.echelon.pl/videos/watch/a4c80ebc-8f70-40c8-85a4-51bc794a8487
Major Western media outlets were
Dont care
Once it was figured out that AmeriKKKans blew up the pipelines, it was swept under the rug.
Last ive seen most likely Ukrainians operating out of Poland unbotherd by Polish services, as its a shared strategic objective for both countries. BTW you do know that Nordstream2 was turned off months earlier by Russia to blackmail Germany?
The people who were fanatically chanting
The what? Its start overstreached but finishes so absurd I wont even attempt any logic.
Death to AmeriKKKa
This I could support. Also death to Russia and every other imperialism (incl European and Chinese).
There’s litterally nothing you could do to lower my opinion of western leftiests anymore, I come into these discussions knowing this is the top level of an argument you could master. Fucking imperialist scum.
Why the fuck would anyone care what your opinion is? “Don’t care”
Why do these pigeon playing chess assholes always think their opinion is so important that everyone has to fucking tap dance for them?
Have one more for the road, lmao
If that’s what genocide is, then it’s good to know you support Ukraine’s genocide in the Donbas Republics, or America’s genocide of Ukraine. Don’t forget, we did the coup, we did the union house massacre, we overturned the election, we installed the nazis who are kidnapping people off the streets at gunpoint. We destroyed Ukraine’s self-determination to turn them into an unwilling suicide bomb against Russia.
My dear Russian friend
Your brain is fully cooked by nationalist ideology and the desire to live in a conspiracy thriller movie
Your brain is fully cooked by nationalist ideology and the desire to live in a conspiracy thriller movie
Posters IRL name is Dimitry, doesn’t sound like your typical native KKKanadian.
Yeah now honestly the union house masacre of two thing, how does that compare to daily russian bombardment of civi targets?
how does that compare to daily russian bombardment of civi targets?
How does that compare to Ukraine constantly shelling the donbas for the last 10 years? Denying Russian Ukrainians their pensions? Literally engaging in genocide by making use of Russian illegal and shit like that?
Have you seen pictures of Bakhmut after half a year of battle? How was anything still standing in Donbas after supposably 10 years of bombardment? This is such a deeply absurd propaganda point, how could anyone fall for that?
You’re arguing a thing in the past didn’t happen because of ‘common sense’ bullshit
Why not just look it up
OK, fast search; US propaganda site with a good selection of satellite photos. Show me something remotly of this scale from any Kremlin or whichever you want sources for Donbas city.
Why? Your point is a red herring either way. The scale of destruction when two nation states fight a dug in war is different from a nation state suppressing a regional separatist movement? Premise granted. So?
Just let me know when we can go back to the original argument
god you’re a fucking moron
Pull up any random picture of Donbas and Bakhmut right now and tell me if you spot a difference.
Notice how you say “civic targets” to imply bombing civillians like we and our allies do, when what you’re actually talking about is striking power stations? I know that’s what you actually mean, because if you or anyone in the capitalist propaganda sphere had evidence of “daily russian bombardment” of civillians, we would never hear the end of it. This is a weak deflection with no weight behind it.
Since you definitely truly care about human life, what do you think about the US-backed nazi junta’s 8 years of bombings and terror raids targeted specifically at civillians? Their own people too, which I hear is apparently extra evil in the eyes of liberals who weigh morality by the fiction of statehood. Seems like the kind of thing that should have a more self-aware person clamoring for regime change there, too. But then, you’re literally lying for nazis right now. There’s no bar too low for you to ooze under.
Mate there’s a daily stream of bombed out housing blocks, supermarkets, hospitals and markets. Just do a fast search, or check r/Ukraine if you need to.
You’re saying things a decade ago didn’t happen because there’s damage from things happening now
That’s very stupid
Tell me, why would >>Russian citizens<< stay in Donbas under this constant bombardment if they could anytime move say 50km and be out of range of anything Ukraine had untill 2-3 years ago? They heroically die for motherlands propaganda machine or their country not only wouldent protect nor would allow them to move?
People in Gaza figured out if the Israeli genocidal state is bombing them it makes sense to run. But there’s not much territory there to hide. Russia on the other hand does seem to have… a bit more to get out of range why not offer it at least to the willing? Why no satellite evidence, especially compared to how Bakhmut or Mauriopol looked after a few months of Russian operations? You ever attempt to reality check what you believe, even if its with the best intentions?
Threatening people to move prior to terror-bombing is some next-level
right here.
What I’m getting from your disjointed screed is that you’re implying that the Donbas shelling is a hoax. You nazi pieces if shit will say anything
genocide. Which the Russians also attempt to commit against Ukrainians denying them their right for self–determination, my dear Russian friend.
Thank god Zelensky is not trying to commit genocide on Ukrainians denying them their right for self-determination by forbidding people to leave the country and kidnapping them off the streets 1 by 1 in front of their mothers/wives and sending them to the meatgrinder, am I right, my dear Western friend holding the moral high ground?
Im not western, and live with a place with over a million Ukrainian refugees, with whom I work. The fuck you talking about?
Also the Russian invasion was anything but swift!
It was quite swift initially, and if the west didn’t torpedo the deal then the whole thing could’ve been over in 2 months.
I seem to remember the Russians got stuck in mud and ran out of fuel pretty swifty I guess
things that absolutely happened outside liberal fantasies
no, it wouldn’t have been lol, also there is a reason ukraine allied itself with the west
Yeah, the reason being that the west made false promises to Ukraine that led to their destruction as has been the case with every prior western proxy.
Russia promised to not invade, or rape or pillage… But yeah, west bad because isn’t helping enough.
Ukraine promised to implement Minsk and stop ethnic cleansing in Donbas for 8 years. Then western leaders came out and said that the purpose of Minsk agreements was to give Ukraine more time to arm.
Meanwhile, the fact that it was the west who sabotaged the peace deal two months in is a well documented help
- https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/05/5/7344206/
- https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/
- https://peoplesdispatch.org/2022/10/25/the-west-must-stop-blocking-negotiations-between-ukraine-and-russia/
- https://www.aaronmate.net/p/ukraines-top-negotiator-confirms
- even Nuland has now openly admitted this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiS2dg_atfc
It’s incredible that anybody could be so utterly dishonest to characterize this as helping Ukraine.
Yeah the reason is primarily corruption. There’s a reason so many Americans specifically related to the state dept either quit their jobs and took up in Ukrainian companies, or directly started investing in Ukraine in the lead up to 2014 and the eventually coup that lead to zelensky being in power. Ukraine isn’t special. It holds no real significance for a US company or investment firm based on its laws or government. But cheap mineral rights and a complete lack of environmental regulation thanks to a captured government? That’s just easy money that also denies a self made US enemy that easy money. And all for the price of the Ukrainian population.
The instigator is different. Not trying to condone Israel, but the initial reason for invading is different.
Fuck both Russia and Israel.
What do you believe Israel’s reason is?
Who cares. They are killing anything in their sight. Fuck them.
It’s also two different news agencies.
Feel free to find a western news agency covering Israeli invasion of Syria the same way they cover Russia.
Well yeah, it’s different. The two situations are not remotely comparable.
It’s true, there are significant differences. One is a response to ethnic cleansing and NATO expansion,while the other is a genocidal regime invading its neighbour.
didn’t russia promise ukraines independence?
Ukraine had independence until the west overthrew their democratically elected government in a violent neofascist coup.
Didn’t Israel promise a bunch of similar things to Palestine?
They’re liars
yes, Israel is a bad state and russia is also a bad state
They still do, if the rest of the original treaty is upheld.
What ethnic cleansing? I’m asking this in good faith, I genuinely don’t know who Ukrainians were trying to eliminate. I’ve vaguely heard that many Cossaks in Eastern Ukraine were pro-Russia because they’d let them have more autonomy, is that what this is about?
Ukraine consists of a number of different ethnic groups. The eastern part of Ukraine used to be Russia before the revolution, and is largely populated by ethnic Russians. After the 2014 coup, eastern parts of Ukraine rebelled and it’s been in a civil war ever since. The slides from this lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 provide a good background. First, here’s the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:
here’s how the election in 2004 went:
this is the 2010 election:
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
The civil war has been going on for the 8 years since the coup, and the goal of subjugating the people of Donbass has been openly stated by the regime. For example, here’s Poroshenko saying openly saying that the goal was to terrorize the people into submission. Here’s a clip of CNN reporting on the regime attacking civilians. There’s also a whole documentary with lots of interviews of civilians.
In 2022, LPR and DPR appealed to Russia to intervene, and that’s how the current war started. Incidentally, it’s pretty much modelled on how NATO invaded Yugoslavia when they recognized the autonomy of the separatist regions and intervened on their behalf.
One is a response to ethnic cleansing and NATO expansion,while the other is a genocidal regime invading its neighbour.
mh … that almost sounds like two different things …
now do Ukraine 🤡
no, you should do it, because ukraine didn’t invade russia
You’re right, Ukraine was just doing some light ethnic cleansing in Donbas that the west was cheering on. At least you lot are consistent in your support for ethnic cleansing and genocide.
I love it how people still trot our wikipedia as a source of truth, go read at the sources I’ve provided in this thread
One is a response to ethnic cleansing and NATO expansion
lmfao sure thing Vlad
I’m sorry that well documented facts upset you NAFO
would you mind showing me some credible sources?
already have in this very thread
