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Yeah brain drain isn’t as cool when it happens here, is it?
This feels sad on the surface, as an American who went to college 25 years ago and is used to seeing people from around the world move here to learn, teach, start businesses, etc.
But giving it any real thought, damn it, it is much better for humanity this way. Climate change isn’t going to pause while the world watches us collapse.
It is not secret that the US has attracted talented academics for many years. I am sure that these kinds of advertisements are not new.
Yeah with money
I’m sure they’re not.
I’m also pretty sure that they’re working a lot better now than they were before…
This is amazing for us in Europe, bring all the educated ones and leave the Trumpers there
Fully onboard with this, welcome to Spain amigo.
well to some of us americans, who can’t leave, this is horrible… but logical….
the last thing i want is all the reasonable people to leave, and be stuck with these fuxks….i kinda wonder now, how much did people fleeing nazi germany contributed to them solidifying power?
It’s kinda funny, this is what Texas did to Oklahoma in regards to our teachers. Put up billboards saying that they paid more in Texas. It’s depressing but it worked lol.
oklahoma wasn’t great before that, but at least it was OK…
Take this up vote and GO
I mean I imagine most people leaving would still keep American citizenship and therefore still be able to vote. Unless they decide to end their citizenship which some might but I imagine most people would still want to keep that option open.
The world is looking to China too, their sciences are blossoming. Exciting times ahead while Americans decide who they are and want to be and eventually go through their own Enlightenment. Things are bad now, but tyrants always fall eventually. I think we are entering a sort of golden age for science.
This thread gives me hope. Last Trump presidency Marcon told scientists to move to France. I was like… I hear you. Added 56 credit hours of math and science to my writing degree. Now I’m ready to do bioinformatics or something health data related not in the US.
I too enjoy the freedom to think my thoughts!
And as far as I’ve seen the numbers it’s working too. Anywhere in Europe that is academic or sciency is seeing record numbers of Americans applying. The brain drain will be real.
It has already been happening for several years now, it’s just accelerated since Trump. Even before his first term there was a “negative brain drain” of educated workers no longer coming into the US because the benefits (paid time off, health care, etc) are so much worse compared to other countries, even when considering the higher pay. America used to rely on a steady stream of incoming highly educated workers.
But now there is a huge amount of well established academics leaving for Canada, EU, or anywhere else that will pay them. I work in a physics department at a large R1 university in a very liberal state, and we are losing 4 (that I know of) high regarded professors just this year alone moving to other countries.
The brain drain is here, and won’t be reversing course even if Trump suddenly disappears. We would have to completely change how we reward work and our failing healthcare system for anything to change.
Makes sense. This is doing decades of damage. Plenty of past groundbreaking research came out of the US. But I get it. I wouldn’t want to move to the US either for very much the same reasons. Lack of affordable healthcare, lack of paid holidays and gun safety would be the main reasons. Lack of food regulation would also be a concern. And now the current regime and the way too large chunk of the population that still seems happy with it means we put even tourist travel plans to the US on hold. Too scary at the moment. Trying to help the best I can from here, but there’s only so much you can do at a distance.
It’s already happened in Florida and Idaho at least, Idaho lost a huge amount of medical professionals thanks to RvW and state passed open ended and vague laws. Florida lost just about all their teachers DeSantis is stuffing schools with sycophants with little to no education and no teaching credentials. We’re already losing.
All numbers I’ve seen for record applications were for high level research and university level teaching. Maybe the medical doctors mainly moved states? At least I haven’t seen them making headlines about moving to Europe.
Many are leaving teaching all together, it’s a huge problem that’s going to have far reaching consequences for a lot more than 4 years. While they might not all leave the US, they are no longer teaching or practicing medicine in hostile states, Idaho has been forced to shut down hospitals and medical services.
Here in rural CA we’re also seeing medical access dwindle. A lot of things people don’t realize have changed are very drastic, being older I remember not even needing to think about buying produce and inspection it for bugs or rotting. Now, you have to check, and if you aren’t washing everything before you put it away from the store you are getting bugs. It’s gonna happen reliably, many services and newly built things seem shotty and badly done. We have been running out of competency for some time now, and if you’ve been alive long enough were clearly in decline.
We have quite a shortage of doctors and other medical professionals in Slovenija. Come on over, guys!
ETA: and professors to teach at the medical university.
Most countries welcome medical professionals with open arms. They are always shortlisted. ;)
PS: I love Slovenija, it is so pretty. I reccomend it too!
How much is med school there and are older people welcomed into the schools? I had to drop my premed program here in the US because I either need to be a med student for rural America … which can get fucked imo or pay a million to stay in “progressive” cities.
My daughter is about 2 years from graduating high school, and even before Trump came into office I was urging her to consider non-US colleges. Mostly because she wants to go into medicine and our healthcare system has been broken for much longer than I can remember. But also the rise of Fox News (and others) getting away with stating provable lies as fact, Joe Rogan, et al. showed that there has been an inflection point and the country is being led around by the dumbest of us.
She’s fluent in Spanish, though jumping straight into a medical program would introduce a lot of new specialized words, and might be to much. We’re starting to look into options though.
College introduces a lot of new words in general. It is what it’s for, plus, she will be in pre-med. Go for the Spanish route. She will flourish. :) Spain is so lovely. I hope I can land something there next.
Very true. If she’s up for the challenge I really want her to do that. I’d love more reasons to go to Spain.
Ugh, Spain is amazing. I dream of that country.
Specially in smaller cities away of the big two.
Medical English is largely stripped-down Latin, I wonder how similar medical Spanish is
The technical terms are very similar. The only issue would be the colloquial terms.
We interact with people from numerous Spanish speaking countries as part of an intern program, and the one thing every new group says is how funny each other’s slang sounds to the rest of the group. She might have a rough month or two, but then I think it would be fairly smooth after that.
I mean English is sorta the science lingua franca so I imagine most of the technical words would be lone words if they showed up in a paper first.
*loan words, as they were loaned to the language in question.
I interpreted it as meaning lone words as in only a few here and there.
It low-key reads like one of those “lonely singles in your area” ads.
Yeah, I good with the message, but that’s one of the most uncomfortable looking photos I’ve seen. Where are they supposed to be looking?
Come to Germany! We do everything like the US, but with a 4 year delay and 10% less intense! Relive your memories of when your homeland went down the drain!
I feel like the 4 year delay is gonna hit it’s threshold and start surpassing the US. Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like Germany has the populous to shift very quickly. Now that the US is full Fascism I feel like Germany just got the acceleration card equipped. Which will also influence the rest of the west and Americans to hit the “kill all Muslims” button as hard as they can.
Starting with “Hamas/Palestine/Antisemitism” as the justification.
I still have the hope that people see the trainwreck the US is now and go “oh shit”, and try to avoid it
It’s happened before. A lot of the allies in ww2 were nazi-curious before their country was invaded. They were getting fairly popular in the US especially, holding large rallies and captivating the hearts of several of our captains of industry. I won’t go into the details.
Some states will go down the path of fascism until they pass the point of no return, and the state that existed before is well and truly dead. When they’re done warring against their own minorities they’ll attempt to expand to neighboring states because they need to justify their own existence.
Some states will follow the path of fascism until they see their peers further down the path either trapped in the turmoils of war and genocide, or threatening war and genocide on themselves or their close allies, then they turn around out of fear of the new common enemy. Like a sailor trapped by a sirens call only snapping out of it when the sailor in front of them gets devoured.
The reaction to Brexit in the rest of the EU - where almost from one month to the next people’s support for the idea of leaving the EU crashed to less than half as much as shown in various polls at the time - gives me hope that what Trump is doing in America is actually crushing the chances of his ideology in the rest of the World.
This seems to already be happenning in Canada (we will know for sure once the result of their upcoming elections is out).
In summary, I think there is good reason to hope that the result in the rest of the World of the Fascist Far-Right taking over a high-profile country like the US will be either the crushing of the Far-Right or it very explicitly distancing itself from the kind of ideology espoused by Trump - in other words, that America, just like Britan with Brexit, is really and unwittingly taking one for the rest of us.
As a pretty terrified American, I actually take some comfort in this idea. Please learn from us. I just hope if things get that far here, that the rest of you will have some empathy for those of us who did not want this. So many comments from people in other countries are blaming every American for this. Seeing so many of those comments (mostly on Reddit) has been the second scariest part of all of this for me. I’m used to being hated in the abstract for being an American, but to think that if the fascists here get their way people like me have no hope of escape is too much to think about
If there’s any consolation, I personally support asylum for Americans escaping political persecution for my country, I just hope that our government will act quickly enough for it, and the right not getting in the way
I expect a lot of, especially queer, people trying to escape, and I really hope we get something in place before it’s too late
Welcome to our world. I remember the hate I had to put up with, just for being Serbian. Finally, someone else understands.
As a white American, I was just talking about this relatively new experience to me, and not in any way meaning to co-opt or undermine other people’s objectively worse experiences, by the way. Just wanted to throw that out there.
At the same time, while we might disparage Russia or China, to me that’s always meant the government, not literally the people. I hate that I probably took for granted that at least most other people thought the same way I did.
Too many people often just handwave that civilians should die rebelling against their government if it is bad. It is never that simple, it is not as simple as they voted bad and didn’t rebel, so we have an excuse to exterminate them all.
We should do the same as was done with Germany: trial those most responsible in Nuremberg, rehabilitate the rest. Germany turned out to be a wonderful, anti-nazi country, with hard workers that produced high-quality products. Imagine if they where just nuked instead?
I have less hope for two reasons:
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These are still capitalist countries and thus the incentive for fascism still remains even if it gets delayed a bit.
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The US is the largest, most dangerous military superpower the world has ever seen and it has shown time and time again that it’s willing to use that might to bully other nations into economic submission. No country is really safe if it decides to start going after them. The US hasn’t always won these wars, but even when it fails like in Vietnam or Korea, it does enough damage on the way out to cause massive destruction and suffering which has long lasting consequences. I seriously doubt the rest of the world is just gonna get to sit this one out and watch America self destruct.
For 1., also don’t forget that major labour movements spring up during and after WW2, it’s hard to say how much of a repeat that will be this time around, but the potential is there
And 2., I agree, I am concerned myself, especially with nukes these days
But on the other hand, economy, and reliance on globalized production chains, is so much more central to the core of a nation these days. It’s not possible to just produce everything locally anymore, not like it was during WW2, anyway. everything is too hyper specialized for that now
So there is the potential that, if the US really does something very stupid and gets a complete embargo from the rest of the west, they’re just going to get completely fucked (and so will the rest of the west, but you know). So the amount of damage they end up being able to do might end up being limited
Of course, China would benefit massively from this, as they do actually go heavy on self-sufficiency, and then there’s the risk of Russia exploiting this as well, but the silver lining is that the US simply might collapse before it manages to do some real damage
In the end, I think the future of how the world will look like will be up to China. I really really hope that they end up having a massive democratic movement for the sake of the world, but we’ll see. At least China so far still seems like a rational actor on the world stage, although still ruthless and self-serving, of course
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Half the country is fighting to run towards the trainwreck…
I would say that the politically widespread “unwavering support” for a nation very overtly because of their dominant ethnicity, including whilst they’re commiting a Genocide along ethnic lines themselves (the kind of thing one would naivelly expect Germans to be especially disgusted at), proved beyond any doubt that Racism in Germany is alive & well all across the political spectrum, from the supposed “left” of the Greens all the way to the far-right.
(AfD really is just the same mindset with the addition of “If it’s good to unwaveringly support them no matter what they do, then it’s also good for us”)
Sadly whilst the symbols were forbidden, the way of thinking about other human beings (of seeing people as members of ethnicities and judging and treating them differently depending on ethnicity) that was the foundation for Nazism never actually died in Germany, they just changed who the ubermenschen and untermenschen are and don’t actually say those words out loud.
Where is this post-racism country where you live and are you taking applications?
Ah, the good old sociopath-style argument that because there is Racism everywhere then people shouldn’t complain about the level of Racism in some places approaching that of the Nazis.
It’s the Racist variant of the good old “we’re better than North Korea” argument to defend Capitalist excesses.
I’m not German and maybe I misread, but I took this as specifically singling out Germany
If you go up to my original post, it was in response to somebody talking about German politics in the context of the Israeli Genocide.
As one of only a handful of nations who kept on “unwaveringly supporting” Israel with weapons even as the Genocide became more and more extreme and obvious beyond deniability, Germany definitely needs to be heavily criticized for that support and the underlying view of other human beings that is required for people to say - as Sholz did - “We unwaveringly support the Jewish Nation” (note the ethnicity very explicitly) as justification to keep sending weapons to Israel even after they had already murdered over 40,000 civilians including a list of babies 1 year old or less which was 17 pages long.
This isn’t the “police taking less seriously reports of being assaulted from victims of certain ethnicities than from other ethnicities” level of Racism far too common in many countries, this is the “we’ll keep on sending weapons to people who have murdered thousands of babies because we support the race of the murderers” level of Racism - the level of evil of unfairly treating a minority is a whole different scale from the level of evil of sending weapons to baby mass murderers because you support their race.
Absolutely, the likes of the US and UK, for example, are just as appallingly and disgustingly Racist.
However I myself did not expect this from Germany, both because I had a much much better opinion of Germans (I even lived there for 3 months) and because having in the past done horrible things (Nazism, the Holocaust) exactly because of extreme Racism and spent the time since remembering it and claiming “Never again”, it turned out that the “Never again” of most German politicians was the race-limited version “Never again shall we Germans do this to Jews” rather than the Humanist version of “Never again shall this happen”.
It’s hard for me to convey just how profoundly disappointing I am with Germany in addition to how disgusted I am with it and other nations who kept supporting baby mass murderers with weapons to kill more babies overtly because they support the race of the murderers.
So yeah, I totally agree with
I feel like Germany just got the acceleration card equipped
from the poster I was responding to, because until recently Germany hadn’t displayed anywhere near the levels of Racism required to, because of the race of the murderers, support baby mass murderers with weapons that will be used to murder more babies.
Meanwhile the Trump administration has asked Australian academics to justify that their US-funded research lines up with Conservative values
Actual free market at work, as opposed to the shit we have in the U.S.
I wouldn’t mind moving to canada since I’m really close to the border anyway. it would be like nothing happened almost
Yes move to Europe with stagnant economies and 60% tax rates. There are evident reasons why the EU isnt competitive, it’s not a secret.
I’d say we do pretty well and STILL have affordable healthcare. But I’m sure potholes and a few extra billionaires are worth the tradeoff.
America is a shithole that treats their workers like shit overall. I would love to be able to move to Europe.
There is great opportunity in America. People all over the world still want to come here for a chance to compete. Bow down before the great Eagle, cawcaw!! Sure we have our problems but I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else. The border to leave stays open btw.
I live better and more cheaply here than I did in the US, to each their own.
And long ass vacations. I’m in.
Long ass vacays is true, I’ll give you that one.
