Please no book spoilers in this thread. This thread can contain TV spoilers up to season 2 episode 2.
Air Date: July 21st 2023
Posted this in another /c but disappointed by this season, Lee and Jared are doing what they can but the writing is brutal, too many threads not enough setting, 2 episodes on synnax, the most boring planet in the galaxy with 0 population, and how is that one building somehow floating for hundreds of years with hurricanes like that so common that someone who left as a teen knows how to predict them?
Adding the mule arc early didn’t seem like a great solution to not closing threads coherently, we just went from an 8 thread jumble to a 12 thread jumble.
There’s one payoff I’m waiting for and that’s demerzel, but they can’t pull that till later, so we are stuck with interempire-rivalry with that girl added in.
They didn’t exactly add the mule arc early, though, given that his existence is only revealed by precognition.
I think it’s nice that the Mule isn’t so unique and unexpected in the TV series, actually. Seldon didn’t account for this kind of “psychic” capability in his equations, but now that he’s actually doing experimental psychohistory stuff like this is starting to pop out of the woodwork and reveal itself through glitches in the original plan. I suspect this is a benefit of working from a completed series rather than making up the series one book at a time like Asimov did, you can know ahead of time what to foreshadow.
I’m enjoying having a weekly sci fi show outside of strange new worlds. Seldon’s portrayal of being trapped for 100+ years was fun to watch. I love when good actors ham it up.
He was brilliant.
I liked it!
Me too. It’s been long enough since I read the books that “no book spoilers” is pretty moot as a caution for me, but I get the impression that the show might also be diverging pretty far from the books too at this point? It’s got the same themes and stuff but there was a development in this episode that made me sit up and go “wait, that didn’t happen.”
But if so, I actually like this new development compared to how I remembered it go in the original books.
That’s good to hear.
I’ve been delaying watching it for a while, in part due to how critical people were.
Perhaps that’s silly, given my expectations aren’t that high. I just want a fun show to fall asleep to. Every show doesn’t need to be The Expanse or Counterpart.
Yeah. It’s only been two episodes so far, but even though there are currently three unconnected storylines going on (the castaways on the water planet, the activities of the Foundation on and around Terminus, and what Cleons are up to on Trantor) they still feel more “united” than the separate storylines in the first season did. Seems like they may have listened to critiques of the first season and adapted to some of it.
I checked and they’ve started filming a third season. Hopefully the strike doesn’t kill it.
Hell has no fury like a sci-fi fan whose source material has been scorned.
And to be fair, I can completely understand that perspective, and maybe it is a cynical ploy by greedy studios and ambitious writers who want their own thing put on screen, but if you’re among the millions who are either not familiar with or not invested in the source material (coughHalocough), you can take these shows for what they are.
Foundation is nowhere near as tight as the Expanse was, and it’s undoubtedly just letting sufficiently advanced math be a byword for magic, but it’s well enough performed and there are a few compelling ideas floating around, and the narrative threads are finally beginning to come together. As someone who is not an Asimov reader, I like it quite a bit but don’t love it.
I liked this episode a little bit better than the last one. I’m getting a little bit better feel for where things are headed. Salvor and Gaal are still the most uninteresting part of this show for me, but that could change if they actually start doing things to influence the rest of the plot.
I wish there was more technical explanation of how Gaal and Salvor could see the future and the past. Is this based on anything or is it basically just magic? I remember in the beginning of season 1 Gaal was partially awake during that subspace transit. I thought they would bring that up again as to how it messed up her mind in some quantum weirdness, but I guess not.
As for Cleon this episode. I’m surprised he didn’t just kill this woman on the spot. His temper and arrogance in the past made it seem like he would find her unacceptably insulting. It’s also surprising that there doesn’t need to be some kind of unanimous agreement among the entire Cleon tree as they call it for such drastic decisions like ending the Cleon cloning lineage. Day apparently has this authority on his own?
It’s basically magic. Telepathy and prophecy and being able to discern the future with ‘math’ are used extensively in the books. It’s just part of the world.
This isn’t our universe. It’s an alternative reality with themes that sometimes mirror portion of life on Earth and offer alternative angles to view those themes so that we might think about our own problems in a new way. That’s what sci fi is all about.
I’m fine with basically magic, but I do like at least some pseudo explanation of the fictional science. If they leave it as a mystery then it is too far on the fantasy scale for my tastes.
check my half-assed theory. I’m too proud with it.
I’ve read it, but I’m somewhat busy to fully contemplate it and give a response right at the moment. 😅
im will be waiting. I am just over the moon enthusiastic about being part of sth that is relatively newly taking of, or might. and by that I mean lemmy. take all the time. but pls make sure to write back.
I don’t think it is basically magic. I think they added contemporary layers to the source material and this is one of them. I’ve written it as another answer next to yours below the same question you just answered. I’d love to hear your feedback as a book reader.
My money is on it having to do something with the jump and concsiousness. Gaal was partially awake, and Salvor survived the non-linearity she experienced even though she was not sedated.
Opposed to it being pure magic:
my non-book-reader, 21st century minded theory is that it has to do with “quantum consciousness”, a fringe idea that tries to combine the wave function collapse + entanglement + the mind-body duality with the hard problem (of explaining consciousness). (which is pseudo for now and thereby “magic” tho)
as the empire has the space jump tech, it already demonstrates their space-time-gravity manipulation capabilities (which requires quantum physics). Apparently, all minds “collapse” (or go into psychosis) due to the non-linearity. (except the two.)
I, in a non-physicist bogus armchair way explain that as a sort of frequency interference between the wave fields of our consciousness and the extreme waves fields (?) created by the space jump.
Gaal and her daughter Salvor’s mind does not collapse due to it. Furthermore, their memories’ / minds’ can apparently even “fold” the space-time (the telepathy and the visions from future / past), just as the ships that can jump (maybe not “just as”, but prolly using some similar physics). Therefore, I believe; they possess a certain subconscious capability of “manipulating their mind’s quantum field or space/time” (sorry, this is getting out of hand) - (I also think this could at one point partially tie into the luminist reincarnation and the “soul” )
In any case. I think, water peeps are not Gaal’s bio parents. I think she was in the womb of someone during an “old-school” analogous jump. I think the ship that carried her bio-mom was escaping something or having certain difficulties and Gaal prenatally or as a baby experienced a jump. But because her mind was not fully developed, she survived it and it altered her brain forever thereby gaining this second nature and somehow past it on. Eventually she somehow ended up in a sci-fi version of a floating cradle in the water planet a la superman. (because the jump was problematic and their ship went down and her parents sent her to the closest planet)
Water planet family is the Kents to Gaal. I call this theory: Gaal Kent, who prenatally (or as a newborn) experienced a jump that altered her brain forever. (And the brains of her offspring). She was always meant to be once in a century level intelligence and inherently curious due to her bio-parents, but this altercation gave her and her future offspring, the ability we talk of + the magic-level intuitions. Or I don’t know. Maybe it is just pure magic. But I just can’t let it go like that.
I also believe the first missing piece in Hari’s puzzle is not Gaal’s choices, but the event that Gaal experienced as a baby or unborn. Oh oh! Maybe she was actually on the Invictus as a baby? And her cradle was cryogenic?
more edit: Gaal’s coming back to the water planet in cryo-pod was foreshadowing to the past we don’t know of yet… My mind just removed a rib and sucking itself off
There is actually a good Space Opera book called The Quantum Magician that one of the main premises is this idea of someone being able to perceive quantum states without them collapsing. If you are ever in the mood for a space opera book.
I’ve also been suspecting that Gaal being awake during the jump was going to be significant at some point, but somehow it has never come back up again. I really hope they point this out as being related to her significant in the show.
As for Gaal’s parents being some other people it seems unlikely. Wouldn’t they still have to be from that planet? As Gaal had those gems on her face that I assume were some part of that planets species biology.
the stones were put onto her as a baby and is not part of their biology. I remember the scene but can’t remember which ep. Kinda gave me similar vibes to baby circumcisions due to religious reasons.
Ill check the quantum magician, seems intriguing, thanks!
I’ll have to go back to that first episode and check it out.
It’s still a SyFy show with swearwords and a VFX budget but on the plus side - I think this was the first episode without a redundant voice-over from Gaal, so that’s something.
Highlight:
“What’s that Beki? Can you smell water? What’s that Beki? Can you smell trouble?”Lowlight:
The scene with the camera revolving around the characters was like a parody of that kind of scene.I’d like to read the book series in the future, which one’s the best to start with?
I think “The Foundation Trilogy” is where you start. It was written first. There are then a prequel trilogy and a sequel trilogy. I’ve also heard it be suggested that the book “End of Eternity” is a kind of prequel prequel, but it’s hard to know if Asimov really intended such a thing or if there are merely some coincidences and common themes.
I agree with you, probably the best place to start is the original trilogy. Prelude to foundation and forward to foundation are nice, but I found them less impactful than the foundation/foundation and empire/second foundation. Since it ties to the foundation lore as well, I would suggest the robot series as well, it has some of my favourite books (the naked sun to name the best IMO!).
End of eternity is nice and could be seen as a part of the robot/foundation saga, but I would read it as it is and then, if you want, tie it to the overarching story.
