Fine, but beware of getting on the “I was born this way and I can’t change even if I wanted to” train. That’s extremely harmful to your personal growth, because even if you were truly different genetically, it can be used as an excuse to not learn or change, even if you were capable of it.

Then it isn’t that hard to do, right? There’s no innate talent to it, just plain memorization.

Most of us neurodivergent people consider ourselves smart and observant. Observe those who you consider small talk comes naturally, and see how they fall into patterns. They’re more elaborate that a non-answer catalogue, but they’re still crutches to make ease the friction.

An acquaintance of mine, for example, tells jokes. Some times they bomb, but he doesn’t sweat it, they’re still ice breakers. Another acquaintance immediately gets the attention of nearby females by retelling one more how he went randomly backpacking across Europe as a poor, young musician. If that doesn’t work, he has other, equally entertaining tales, which we have few ways of fact checking, ha ha.

But for us small-talk-stunted people, clever non-answers are a perfect crutch to fend off the awkwardness until we acquire this skill, and we can always refuse small talk if we’re not in the mood.

That’s not how it is, you’re comparing a Saw movie with small talk, talk about hyperbole.

You can always say “I don’t feel comfortable with small talk” if you don’t want to make the effort of making your own quick-answer list, and no loved one of yours will die because of that.

There’s a couple different issues at hand here. There’s the social protocol being stupid and annoying part which is what I think you’re referring to. I don’t analyze my day like that with a stranger like a retail worker, or anyone at work. I know the social protocol. I just think it’s a dumb game and I don’t want to play.

Then there’s another aspect which I was thinking about when I wrote the above comment. I was thinking about how even with dear friends, even with my partner who truly want to know how I am, I personally get tired of the question. And maybe that’s unreasonable of me, and I know they mean it out of kindness and love. But it can feel formulaic, like ok are you just initiating a conversation and therefore don’t need the full answer or are you really truly asking? Because when I know someone cares about me and wants to know that’s when I feel like I need to run the above algorithm.

But chances are when people ask me how I am, honestly I’m probably dissociating right now in order to not be overcome by how exhausted and burnt out I am just trying to survive. So a. I don’t really know how I am most of the time unless im in the middle of an emotional experience. And b. I don’t really want to go and pull all those emotions up and relive them in order to analyze the words to summarize and describe them. That honestly makes me feel worse.

So what I wish I could figure out how to communicate to my loved ones is that I will tell you what I want you to know when it occurs to me to say it. And if you want to connect with me and talk to me, why don’t you just tell me what’s on your mind? What are you feeling if you have any feelings, or what are you doing? Or what’s your current interest? Literally anything. I always want to hear from you and listen to what you’ve got to say and let the conversation grow from that. Because that’s how I approach conversation. I just start talking to you about whatever it is I’m thinking about. If I just feel the urge to connect with someone I haven’t spoken to in awhile, I’ll usually say something like “thinking of you, hope you’re well” because that’s literally what’s happening to me right now.

For me when I’m asked how are you? It feels as much pressure as a phone call. Like, please don’t call me! It’s such an imposition demanding attention immediately. I much prefer text so I can think about, draft and edit my response, and respond when I’m ready on my own time. So same with how are you? Like maybe I don’t want to think about that right now. Maybe it’s painful to think about how I am. Maybe I’m not ok but I’m just a saran wrap covering of keeping it together. So talking about it directly is too risky. But I want to talk to you.

Anyway, I can go on and on so I’m going to stop treating this like betterhelp. Hope some of that helped explain why I said what I said although I’m betting probably not. I think something you might have missed was that the post was intended for discussion among those who feel similarly, and really not asking for help. Because there is no help. It’s just the way it is. We understand the social protocol, we just would prefer it to be different and find the whole charade to be one of the hundreds of daily ways we feel othered by society, showing us we don’t fit in, which is often very unnerving and/or frustrating. And when you are feeling those things every day in every interaction with people, it’s a cumulative effect. Ok I’m stopping for real

I have the tendency to do the same, but that’s because my circumstances allow me to. Your capacity to choose whether or not you’re going to interact with someone in the workplace or at school is pretty constrained in a lot of places.

Thanks! Your explanation helped a lot!

For me, fine would be my preferred generic response to these questions because that’s generally how I actually am.

To me, good means actively happy. But generally speaking I’m more neutral. If there’s nothing that has made me actively happy at that moment, and I’m also not actively annoyed or upset about something, then I’m just existing, neutral.

But people tend to question you when you do that. “Fine? Not good? What’s wrong?🤔🥺” Which is annoying because I thought we were playing the game where you ask a question you don’t want the answer to… But they want you to answer in very specific socially acceptable ways and fine is apparently negative to NT.

My favorite response is in Russian. Im Not Russian and don’t even know if this is actually culturally accurate but being taught Russian in America we learned: “как дела?” (Kak Dela?- how goes it?) “нормальный” (normal’nyy - Normal¯⁠\⁠_⁠(~⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯)

@Zeth0s @Worx “not too bad” is what i do (where “too bad” implicitly means death)

unless i’m receiving a call in which my response is “what’s up?” which is ambiguously either (a) responding to a meaningless pro forma question in kind, or (b) expressing immediate interest in knowing what the call is actually about

I just added an edit that addresses exactly that as you were typing :p

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] I try to change it up, legitimately like “Are you hydrated?”

Some of these are more confounding than “how are you?” (are you… implying my heart is not… like … red?) but asking actual questions to greet people is a really nice thing that I’d love to see more widely adopted:

Sometimes. Generally no. Not without the work I outlined above.

As I understand it, people usually have an innate sense of affect - their general energy level, and valence - how positive or negative they feel. More specific emotions are basically narratives - I feel X because Y and that’s called Z. Well I can sense my affect, but my sense of valence is pretty murky most of the time. So coming up with those narratives is hard work, and I rarely have much confidence in them.

(Oh, and please don’t take this as a general guide to ‘what autism is like’ because, 1) I’m not diagnosed, and 2) autistic experience is very diverse)

Yes I know, this is the lying

Yes we understand that but the point is that ND folks don’t automatically know which version is appropriate. Our brains tend to go through an algorithm manually each time, where NT people are much more automatic like you’re suggesting. It’s like if someone with executive function issues like in ADHD and autism told you they struggle to remember things and you tell them to “Just write it down” or “just put it in a calendar 😀” as if this is some kind of new trick they haven’t thought of. This is one of hundreds of daily examples where ND people have to manually go through the mental list of appropriate social protocol that for NT is just somehow magically instinctual.

The point of this post is to highlight one of the many ways that things are more difficult, challenging, exhausting, annoying, frustrating for ND people. This post was made in the autism community to commiserate with other ND people and discuss amongst ourselves, not to educate NT people.

But since I am procrastinating at work and have the spoons, I’ll take a stab at helping you understand. But I would appreciate if you would recognize the imposition you make coming in asking to be educated.

Imagine if for every thing you did all day you couldn’t remember how to do it or even what to do when and instead had to manually pull up a check list of steps to take to accomplish that thing, but also the pencil you used to write the list has been smudged so you can’t really read everything on the list, and when you wrote the list you misunderstood the instructions so the check list is unreliably correct. And the check list has sub points so if this then that, else this other thing. So every thing you need to do every day of your life instead of being automatically pulled up subconsciously by your brain and just done, you had to go through this list and figure out each step new each time.

For ND people, to varying extents, this is how we live for real. And it adds up in impact, but we don’t get a break. And when you’re already overwhelmed and exhausted, each time you have to pull up the checklist and figure out what to do you get worse at it. And it’s stressful and embarrassing to have to check the list each time, especially because often times you mess it up because you can’t read every line clearly or you wrote it down wrong last time.

There’s no solution, there’s no tips or tricks to help. There’s no medication to fix this problem or skills we can learn to make this problem go away. It’s how our brains are wired. We would rather live differently. But we live in societies that have chosen not to educate themselves about different neurotypes and refuse to accommodate any differences.

Instead the “weird” guy at work who is too quiet but then goes off on a coworker because they didn’t follow some stated rule off the workplace, that everyone knows don’t actually matter even though it’s never been said out loud, and why does he have such a stick up his ass, what a loser let’s be mean to him now because he’s obviously not deserving of our understanding or respect for being such a weirdo.

Or that coworker who wears headphones at her desk and is always calling out sick from work. I heard she asked to work from home, who does she think she is? how lazy can you get amirite? Something about being distracted by noise and The overhead lighting, she needs to suck it up! We all get by just fine, why can’t she? And we like chatting with each other over the cubicle walls, she needs to loosen up.

That’s it, it’s like “hi” “hi” “bye” “bye” but longer

Counter-proposal:

“I see you, don’t be alarmed, I don’t want to kill you”, “I see you too, don’t want to kill you either”, “Now I’m going to turn my back, and go away”, “I’m going to turn my back too, we go our separate ways”

Maybe you don’t understand how super creepy the deception is, and that it’s normal somehow for people to pretend to check in with each other while being not only disinterested, but offended if you actually need a real check in.

The point of a society is that we actually care about the well being of each other. We don’t fake it.

It’s worse now that advertising is in everything and friends are hooked into MLMs and religions sometimes, so any veneer of well-wishes may be a dark pattern covering an ulterior motive.