• TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    1 year ago

    Incremental progress is not illegitimate. It’s just never going to be enough to solve the problem that is capitalism. If it were, the New Deal would have fixed this system and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

    • bleph@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Ok…so because the New Deal didn’t… overthrow capitalism forever… therefore working within the system is pointless?

          • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Social democracies aren’t socialism. They have unions, co-ops, but they don’t own the means of production. They are capitalism with heavy regulation and strong social policies. And they are already regressing. If we were a more socially democratic, my opinion might be different, But, historically, the reality that capitalism decays into fascism would still be true.

            • bleph@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              1 year ago

              Why do you assume that socialist systems won’t also experience a gravitational pull towards fascism? In my opinion that’s universal across all political systems. Also aren’t all extant “state owns the means of production” counties quite fascist?

              • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                Wow, you’re really going there. I agree with your thinking. I think of it this way. Would I rather deal with climate change under a capitalist/fascist dictatorship with overconsumption and excess growth. Or would I rather deal with climate change under a tankie dictatorship with a planned economy that limits consumption and growth. I’ll pick the Marxist Leninist one. I’d rather it be an anarcho communist one. But with multiple factions vying for power and trying to control huge populations, that may not be possible.

                • bleph@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  So, do we agree that climate policy has been mixed-bag both in “The West” and China? (Everybody is touting their green tech while still building new fossil fuel extraction and plants)

                  Even if you were sure a tankie government would deliver better on climate change, what are the odds that “the revolution” leads to a full fascist government instead?

                  Surely the Right outguns us 10 to 1?

          • MaungaHikoi@lemmy.nz
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            At least read what he posted before replying. We don’t need to build another reddit where people just rage at each other on behalf of their team.

            • bleph@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              For the record, when I posted that reply the parent only read “yes 🙌”

              I was saltier than I would like to be in retrospect though, I cut it out of a comment.