The Linux foundation seems ready to finally axe a Microsoft-made remote network protocol for USB that is still a part of modern Windows operating systems.
So if my mint install updates I won’t be able to use USB tethering? Is there a way to update my phone to use USB CDC NCM? Or would I have better luck recompiling my mint install to add the standard they just removed? I’m pretty new to Linux (literally made the switch last November) and I sadly have to use USB tethering when my ISP shits the bed with routing to the US
First you will have to find out about your specific phone model. It seems that different chipset vendors implement different things for tethering.
Someone in the raspberry pi forums checked what his Pi Zero was doing with lsusb -t and someone in an old reddit thread checked his dmesg while connecting the phone and turning on tethering, maybe you can try those things while tethering to see whether currently the RNDIS or the USB CDC driver gets loaded for your phone.
Then we will have to see in which kernel version Greg’s change finally lands. At the earliest it will land in Kernel 6.14 because 6.13 is already on the fifth release candidate so new changes shouldn’t be added anymore. Then you have to find out when your Mint install will move to that kernel. If you are currently on Mint 22 Wilma (supported until 2029), then that’s based on Ubuntu 24.04 LTS, which is based on the Ubuntu LTS Kernel 6.8.
I’m guessing now, based on past regularities, that Mint 23 will be based on Ubuntu 26.04 LTS, and that Ubuntu will choose a fresh kernel for their LTS in the beginning of 2026, so probably one that will contain this change by Greg. So it seems to me, that if 1) your phone still needs RNDIS for tethering and 2) you still have that phone in the middle of 2026 and 3) you still have that Mint install you should probably not upgrade to Mint 23, but stay on Mint 22 until its support ends in 2029.
But projecting that far into the future is kind of difficult, maybe distro maintainers will reenable RNDIS if they see it’s still needed, or maybe a future Android Update will force OEMs to use USB CDC.
What’s NDIS and what do you mean to run it in userspace? I am very new to Linux and am barely considered tech savvy so this is all going over my head
I just googled what a NDIS is and with my limited knowledge I think I understood what you’re saying. Are you saying that I could keep an older/custom version of NDIS running on my own user account instead of changing the entire kernel for me to be able to use USB CDC NCM to keep using USB tethering?
Yes you nailed it. No reason for kernel mode unless there are controlling lines needed that the user account is not able to change the signaling on (more rare), if it’s only data mode your user account should suffice.
That’s different protocols. This is only about the one being used when you share your phone’s connection via USB (tethering). Neither adb nor fastboot make use of this.
Also, starting with Android 14, there should be an alternative available with NCM.
Well a14 is not that common but I’ve never heard of tethering before (except for WiFi tethering that improves connection) so I guess it’s not important.
It’s not about improving a connection, but making your phone’s network connection available to other devices. USB tethering creates a network device at /dev/usb... that behaves like an any ordinary network device, allowing you to create a connection using it. Wi-Fi tethering creates a hotspot similar to what your router at home does.
There’s no such thing as USB hotspots, that’s a term for WiFi. Also you can still use the NMC protocol if your Android version is recent enough. Just not RNDIS anymore. It’s an insecure Microsoft protocol, though this probably wouldn’t have mattered for a lot of people.
Also you can still use the NMC protocol if your Android version is recent enough.
Yea but it’s not a justification.
It’s an insecure Microsoft protocol, though this probably wouldn’t have mattered for a lot of people.
That’s why a DE warning would be enough. Linux is just making terrible decisions recently. I guess it’ll continue until major maintainer changes take place and that won’t happen without life losses because nobody is going to leave the project so we might lose many of the Linux’s benefits in a few years imo.
Wait, isn’t RNDIS what’s used when you tether your Android’s connection via USB? Or am I mistaking it for something else?
Yes, with the exception of some that switched to USB CDC NCM already. I seem to be lucky, the Pixel 6 is one of the first to have made the switch.
So if my mint install updates I won’t be able to use USB tethering? Is there a way to update my phone to use USB CDC NCM? Or would I have better luck recompiling my mint install to add the standard they just removed? I’m pretty new to Linux (literally made the switch last November) and I sadly have to use USB tethering when my ISP shits the bed with routing to the US
First you will have to find out about your specific phone model. It seems that different chipset vendors implement different things for tethering.
Someone in the raspberry pi forums checked what his Pi Zero was doing with
lsusb -tand someone in an old reddit thread checked hisdmesgwhile connecting the phone and turning on tethering, maybe you can try those things while tethering to see whether currently the RNDIS or the USB CDC driver gets loaded for your phone.Then we will have to see in which kernel version Greg’s change finally lands. At the earliest it will land in Kernel 6.14 because 6.13 is already on the fifth release candidate so new changes shouldn’t be added anymore. Then you have to find out when your Mint install will move to that kernel. If you are currently on Mint 22 Wilma (supported until 2029), then that’s based on Ubuntu 24.04 LTS, which is based on the Ubuntu LTS Kernel 6.8.
I’m guessing now, based on past regularities, that Mint 23 will be based on Ubuntu 26.04 LTS, and that Ubuntu will choose a fresh kernel for their LTS in the beginning of 2026, so probably one that will contain this change by Greg. So it seems to me, that if 1) your phone still needs RNDIS for tethering and 2) you still have that phone in the middle of 2026 and 3) you still have that Mint install you should probably not upgrade to Mint 23, but stay on Mint 22 until its support ends in 2029.
But projecting that far into the future is kind of difficult, maybe distro maintainers will reenable RNDIS if they see it’s still needed, or maybe a future Android Update will force OEMs to use USB CDC.
Why couldn’t the NDIS driver run in userspace?
What’s NDIS and what do you mean to run it in userspace? I am very new to Linux and am barely considered tech savvy so this is all going over my head
I just googled what a NDIS is and with my limited knowledge I think I understood what you’re saying. Are you saying that I could keep an older/custom version of NDIS running on my own user account instead of changing the entire kernel for me to be able to use USB CDC NCM to keep using USB tethering?
Yes you nailed it. No reason for kernel mode unless there are controlling lines needed that the user account is not able to change the signaling on (more rare), if it’s only data mode your user account should suffice.
Yes, and it’s still in new phones. They’re being disingenuous saying that it’s android phones don’t use it.
So I may not be able to use ADB and Fastboot anymore after I get the kernel update?
That’s different protocols. This is only about the one being used when you share your phone’s connection via USB (tethering). Neither adb nor fastboot make use of this.
Also, starting with Android 14, there should be an alternative available with NCM.
Well a14 is not that common but I’ve never heard of tethering before (except for WiFi tethering that improves connection) so I guess it’s not important.
It’s not about improving a connection, but making your phone’s network connection available to other devices. USB tethering creates a network device at
/dev/usb...that behaves like an any ordinary network device, allowing you to create a connection using it. Wi-Fi tethering creates a hotspot similar to what your router at home does.So now you can’t use USB hotspots on Linux? Yea mainstream has gone pretty evil then tbh. They didn’t even stop at the previous drama.
There’s no such thing as USB hotspots, that’s a term for WiFi. Also you can still use the NMC protocol if your Android version is recent enough. Just not RNDIS anymore. It’s an insecure Microsoft protocol, though this probably wouldn’t have mattered for a lot of people.
That was its name on my old Sony phone though.
Yea but it’s not a justification.
That’s why a DE warning would be enough. Linux is just making terrible decisions recently. I guess it’ll continue until major maintainer changes take place and that won’t happen without life losses because nobody is going to leave the project so we might lose many of the Linux’s benefits in a few years imo.