You can understand that Harris would have been undeniably less awful than trump but also still terrible and basically offered trump-lite policies. This means that people who actually want fascism are just going to vote for trump and many of the people who want progressive policies are going to be apathetic and stay home. This isn’t about all the tankies protest voting, it’s about all the normies who already don’t vote not caring because she ran a dogshit campaign.
but also still terrible and basically offered trump-lite policies.
Harris didn’t say she was going to deport millions of working Americans for being the wrong colored skin.
Harris didn’t say she was going to weaponize the entire political machine against people who passed some off-hand sleight that offended her.
Harris didn’t say she was going to actively dehumanize and torture the entire LGBT community for existing.
Harris didn’t say she was going to actively remove every protection from working class people.
She said none of this. The other guy said it multiple times, and now he’s following through on it! Big fucking shocker!
Seriously. The “both sides” arugment has been so tired out for so long that you cannot legitimately believe that it means anything. Believing the silence said by one side and giving that more weight than what is being actively repeated by the other side is short sighted at best, and intentionally malicious at worst. We’re on the worst side now, and I will treat people who repeat it as the worst side.
You do understand that by saying she would be less awful than trump and trump-lite that I am not saying she would be the same as him? That implies that Trump is worse?
Protest voters bLuEmAgA screeching didn’t happen in a vacuum
And those uncommitted/undecided voters change their minds easily. What if for every protest voter screecher posting their “bOtH SiDeS” BS there were 5 uncommitted voter lurkers saw it and just went “Eh fuck it, I’m busy with work anyways” they’re not protest voting, those are just uncommitteds doing what uncommitteds do.
Scale that up to nationwide and on major social media platforms that totally would have promoted it thanks to those wonderful algorithms and you can see what it’s a problem
Had a friend who was not particularly radical or politically involved who was almost discouraged enough to cast a third-party vote for all the “BOTH SIDES BOTH SIDES” rhetoric.
Yup, I was saying the same thing pre election in a couple of my wonderful discussions with those bots “people” such as anticolonialist (whos been silent for months now a day after the election LMAO)
I see it all the time on platforms that provide statistics, a comment or post can easily have thousands upon thousands of views but like 2 likes and maybe a reply. It’s those thousands that are really easily influenced and they don’t even bother to like/dislike something let alone answer surveys and polls and are incredibly likely to just leave that mail in ballot on the kitchen counter so it’s impossible to know how many there were that could have been potentially influenced
such as anticolonialist (whos been silent for months now a day after the election LMAO)
The pro-Palestine folks haven’t been quiet. They just get downvoted below visibility by Blue MAGA folks who like to pretend that all the pro-Palestine folk were Russian bots.
Nah, plenty of us were pro-palestine enough to vote for the one of two candidates who didn’t want to entirely destroy Gaza. Good thing single issue voters got what they wanted though, right? Right??
I would love it if the bLuEmAgA crowd would sit down for an hour and actually understand electoral politics and how abstaining/voting 3rd party is objectively worse than voting strategically. But some people’s morals in the immediate choice are more important than their long term morals, so here we are.
Sure but if I’m going to put the blame on someone it’s going to be the politicians who refuse to do anything but ratchet right and not the people who are mad about it.
Man, do you not remember what it was like 20 years ago? Even 10 years ago? “We’ve ratcheted right” is empty fucking rhetoric. The Dems have been moving leftwards ever since the nadir of labor support in the 90s. Is it enough? Fuck no. Are we rightward of that? Have we moved right since? Also fuck no.
The people who are ‘mad’ about that have just chosen to kill as many Palestinians as US support can, in addition to genocide against LGBT folk and immigrants, immense damage to the working class, and God knows what fucking else will emerge in this shitshow of a fascist regime.
I’m not going to sit here waiting for Medicaid to be repealed so I can enjoy exsanguinating by internal bleeding because I can’t afford my meds in our fuckhole of a country and say, “Oh, shucks, well, those folk, they were just SO mad that they let the Nazis win, I guess they’re still okay in my book :)” I’m pissed. And I’m pissed for everyone who’s going to get fucked worse than me, which is, unfortunately, a great many people.
Kamala had every opportunity to campaign on medicare and labor but instead she decided that a lethal military, trump-lite immigration policy and agreeing with biden on everything. Sure there were people pretending third parties mattered but apathetic voters are a response to her dogshit campaign at the end of the day. You need to get people excited to vote for you if you want to actually win an election in this country, trump did that for his nazis, kamala did not for the left.
Sure there were people pretending third parties mattered but apathetic voters are a response to her dogshit campaign at the end of the day.
Apathetic voters are a loud and clear declaration of “I don’t care if the literal fascist wins” in this election, man.
Harris having a dogshit campaign doesn’t change that. Harris’s dogshit campaign condemns Harris, and her allies; but the victory of Trump condemns everyone who stood by and refused to do the least thing, a cast vote, to stop him.
Apathy is not an excuse. Apathy is exactly why they deserve condemnation. Anyone who is apathetic about fascism is not someone who deserves a milder rebuke than would otherwise be given. Apathy about fascism is a serious moral failing.
How can you run on a platform of democracy, when democracy has gotten the average American citizen jack shit?
“Vote for a Democrat. If Democrats win, nothing will fundamentally change. If they lose, then you will lose your right to vote for a Democrat again!”
That’s a shit platform that is doomed to fail. Democrats have been running on the platform of “we’re the last hope for democracy” for a generation as this point. And at some point people simply give up and decide, “well, democracy clearly ain’t all it’s cracked up to be, as neither side actually wants to help regular people.”
Sure but getting mad at your average apathetic willfully ignorant American is just a waste of energy, and if anything is just going to make them ignore politics even more.
Sure but getting mad at your average apathetic willfully ignorant American is just a waste of energy
They deserve the blame, and they are what needs to be addressed as a fundamental issue. Anger is irrelevant, though I certainly have plenty of anger for them.
I’m not here praying day-and-night for any party to give good candidates against fascism every election from now on, forever. I’m not here saying we need to be reliant on a party aristocracy to bless us with good leaders. That’s not what democracies are founded on. I’m here interested in seeing an electorate that doesn’t allow fascism to become viable in the first place.
It’s on us. The people. We voted, and refrained from voting, for this. Fuck the Dems, fuck the party elite, fuck Harris and especially fuck Biden. But “bad candidate” or “bad campaign” or “bad strategy” misses the actual problem of “A SUPERMAJORITY OF VOTERS THINK FASCISM IS NO BIG DEAL”
and if anything is just going to make them ignore politics even more.
If we’re talking about the people who refused to vote even when a literal fascist was on the ticket, what exactly are we losing here from them “ignoring politics even more”? How much more can they ignore politics?
You can understand that Harris would have been undeniably less awful than trump but also still terrible and basically offered trump-lite policies. This means that people who actually want fascism are just going to vote for trump and many of the people who want progressive policies are going to be apathetic and stay home. This isn’t about all the tankies protest voting, it’s about all the normies who already don’t vote not caring because she ran a dogshit campaign.
Harris didn’t say she was going to deport millions of working Americans for being the wrong colored skin.
Harris didn’t say she was going to weaponize the entire political machine against people who passed some off-hand sleight that offended her.
Harris didn’t say she was going to actively dehumanize and torture the entire LGBT community for existing.
Harris didn’t say she was going to actively remove every protection from working class people.
She said none of this. The other guy said it multiple times, and now he’s following through on it! Big fucking shocker!
Seriously. The “both sides” arugment has been so tired out for so long that you cannot legitimately believe that it means anything. Believing the silence said by one side and giving that more weight than what is being actively repeated by the other side is short sighted at best, and intentionally malicious at worst. We’re on the worst side now, and I will treat people who repeat it as the worst side.
You do understand that by saying she would be less awful than trump and trump-lite that I am not saying she would be the same as him? That implies that Trump is worse?
Admit you were wrong and learn from it.
No? I voted for Kamala but I still think she’s a piece of shit, just a smaller piece of shit than Trump and I’m not surprised she lost
Protest voters bLuEmAgA screeching didn’t happen in a vacuum
And those uncommitted/undecided voters change their minds easily. What if for every protest voter screecher posting their “bOtH SiDeS” BS there were 5 uncommitted voter lurkers saw it and just went “Eh fuck it, I’m busy with work anyways” they’re not protest voting, those are just uncommitteds doing what uncommitteds do.
Scale that up to nationwide and on major social media platforms that totally would have promoted it thanks to those wonderful algorithms and you can see what it’s a problem
Had a friend who was not particularly radical or politically involved who was almost discouraged enough to cast a third-party vote for all the “BOTH SIDES BOTH SIDES” rhetoric.
Words have power.
Yup, I was saying the same thing pre election in a couple of my wonderful discussions with those
bots“people” such as anticolonialist (whos been silent for months now a day after the election LMAO)I see it all the time on platforms that provide statistics, a comment or post can easily have thousands upon thousands of views but like 2 likes and maybe a reply. It’s those thousands that are really easily influenced and they don’t even bother to like/dislike something let alone answer surveys and polls and are incredibly likely to just leave that mail in ballot on the kitchen counter so it’s impossible to know how many there were that could have been potentially influenced
The pro-Palestine folks haven’t been quiet. They just get downvoted below visibility by Blue MAGA folks who like to pretend that all the pro-Palestine folk were Russian bots.
Nah, plenty of us were pro-palestine enough to vote for the one of two candidates who didn’t want to entirely destroy Gaza. Good thing single issue voters got what they wanted though, right? Right??
I would love it if the bLuEmAgA crowd would sit down for an hour and actually understand electoral politics and how abstaining/voting 3rd party is objectively worse than voting strategically. But some people’s morals in the immediate choice are more important than their long term morals, so here we are.
Sure but if I’m going to put the blame on someone it’s going to be the politicians who refuse to do anything but ratchet right and not the people who are mad about it.
Man, do you not remember what it was like 20 years ago? Even 10 years ago? “We’ve ratcheted right” is empty fucking rhetoric. The Dems have been moving leftwards ever since the nadir of labor support in the 90s. Is it enough? Fuck no. Are we rightward of that? Have we moved right since? Also fuck no.
The people who are ‘mad’ about that have just chosen to kill as many Palestinians as US support can, in addition to genocide against LGBT folk and immigrants, immense damage to the working class, and God knows what fucking else will emerge in this shitshow of a fascist regime.
I’m not going to sit here waiting for Medicaid to be repealed so I can enjoy exsanguinating by internal bleeding because I can’t afford my meds in our fuckhole of a country and say, “Oh, shucks, well, those folk, they were just SO mad that they let the Nazis win, I guess they’re still okay in my book :)” I’m pissed. And I’m pissed for everyone who’s going to get fucked worse than me, which is, unfortunately, a great many people.
Kamala had every opportunity to campaign on medicare and labor but instead she decided that a lethal military, trump-lite immigration policy and agreeing with biden on everything. Sure there were people pretending third parties mattered but apathetic voters are a response to her dogshit campaign at the end of the day. You need to get people excited to vote for you if you want to actually win an election in this country, trump did that for his nazis, kamala did not for the left.
Apathetic voters are a loud and clear declaration of “I don’t care if the literal fascist wins” in this election, man.
Harris having a dogshit campaign doesn’t change that. Harris’s dogshit campaign condemns Harris, and her allies; but the victory of Trump condemns everyone who stood by and refused to do the least thing, a cast vote, to stop him.
Apathy is not an excuse. Apathy is exactly why they deserve condemnation. Anyone who is apathetic about fascism is not someone who deserves a milder rebuke than would otherwise be given. Apathy about fascism is a serious moral failing.
How can you run on a platform of democracy, when democracy has gotten the average American citizen jack shit?
“Vote for a Democrat. If Democrats win, nothing will fundamentally change. If they lose, then you will lose your right to vote for a Democrat again!”
That’s a shit platform that is doomed to fail. Democrats have been running on the platform of “we’re the last hope for democracy” for a generation as this point. And at some point people simply give up and decide, “well, democracy clearly ain’t all it’s cracked up to be, as neither side actually wants to help regular people.”
Jesus fucking Christ.
Sure but getting mad at your average apathetic willfully ignorant American is just a waste of energy, and if anything is just going to make them ignore politics even more.
They deserve the blame, and they are what needs to be addressed as a fundamental issue. Anger is irrelevant, though I certainly have plenty of anger for them.
I’m not here praying day-and-night for any party to give good candidates against fascism every election from now on, forever. I’m not here saying we need to be reliant on a party aristocracy to bless us with good leaders. That’s not what democracies are founded on. I’m here interested in seeing an electorate that doesn’t allow fascism to become viable in the first place.
It’s on us. The people. We voted, and refrained from voting, for this. Fuck the Dems, fuck the party elite, fuck Harris and especially fuck Biden. But “bad candidate” or “bad campaign” or “bad strategy” misses the actual problem of “A SUPERMAJORITY OF VOTERS THINK FASCISM IS NO BIG DEAL”
If we’re talking about the people who refused to vote even when a literal fascist was on the ticket, what exactly are we losing here from them “ignoring politics even more”? How much more can they ignore politics?