Cross-post: https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/29546006
China’s media frequently use remarks by Taiwanese commentators in Douyin (抖音) — the Chinese version of TikTok — posts to propagate negative images of Taiwan, a Taiwan Information Environment Research Center report says.
In October and November last year, the months before and after the US presidential election, the 20 most cited Taiwanese figures were Alex Tsai (蔡正元), Li Cheng-chieh (栗正傑), Julian Kuo (郭正亮), Herman Shuai (帥化民), Lu Li-shih (呂禮詩), Hsieh Han-ping (謝寒冰), Lai Yueh-chien (賴岳謙), Dale Jieh (介文汲), Chang Yen-ting (張延廷), Yuan Chu-cheng (苑舉正), Cheng Li-wun (鄭麗文), Chou Hsi-wei (周錫瑋), Ho Han-ting (侯漢廷), Eric Chu (朱立倫), Lee Sheng-feng (李勝峰), Hsu Chiao-hsin (徐巧芯), Tang Hsiang-lung (唐湘龍), Tung Chih-sen (董智森), Shen Fu-hsiung (沈富雄) and Huang Kuo-chang (黃國昌), the report said.
…
Commentators specializing in military affairs such as Li, a retired major general, Shuai, a former KMT legislator, Lu, a former navy lieutenant commander, and Chang, a retired air force lieutenant general, made the top 10, marking a sharp rise from the same period in 2023, the report said.
The most covered topics were Chinese military power or cross-strait warfare (51.69 percent), “US skepticism theory” (24.83 percent) and “cross-strait familyhood” (13.77 percent), it said, adding th
…at war-related quotes made up the majority.
To varying degrees, yes. The key is the extent which that is true. china is an exceptionally bad actor here, and has been for a long time. So don’t throw around “everyone has always doing this” to dilute the extent or make it seem less pronounced and “everyone does this to this degree” you’re just engaging in basically whataboutism.
What an orientalist claim. British news media was crucial in launching the opium wars against China. The Iraq war was absolutely 100% supported by news media in multiple Western countries doing the bidding of the war hawks. China can’t possibly be a worse actor in this space than the many many examples of Western news media launching actual wars that killed millions.
More on with your whataboutism.
Again I wasn’t saying there isn’t a similar usage of propaganda in western media but also there at least has existed the right and existence of other media which dissents from the state propaganda.
You LITERALLY made a comparative statement saying that China was a worse actor and when I presented you with evidence undermining your COMPARATIVE claim you call it whataboutism. You are an unserious person protecting your psyche.
In fact, not what I said at all. I said, I agree with your statement that the western media does similar things, but I called out that the ccp doesn’t allow dissent in the media. And you did not actually present evidence that they were worse, just that they did bad things. You basically just ignored what I actually wrote and attacked me for pointing out your whataboutism.
It is possible to consider one thing as bad while also thinking another is also bad.
You are likely a CCP bot and I’m conversing with a computer.
You’re a meme at this point. But, allow me to show you just how ridiculous you sound by taking your words and stringing them together.
You said:
To which I replied:
To which you replied:
Meaning that it’s not sufficient to note that all news media does this because there is quantity and severity to consider here. And you will go on to help us understand the quantity and severity in your next sentence:
You began the comparative assessment by saying China is an “exceptionally bad actor”, meaning that amongst all bad actors, China is such a bad actor they can be considered an exception to the, presumably, standard amount of badness of other societies.
You then double down on your comparative assessment:
Reiterating your position that China is an “exceptionally bad actor”. You then attempt to preempt any further discussion with the thought-terminating cliche:
At this point, I called you out for orientalism and then immediately provided evidence against your position that China is exceptionally bad in this regard. But first, let’s remember the context here. Your claim is that China is an exceptionally bad actor, compared to the bulk of other nations, through:
And here is my evidence for how China could not possibly be a worse actor than the British or the Americans:
I think it’s pretty clear what I’m saying and what I’m arguing against. You say China is an exceptionally bad actor at driving narratives for political gain. I then compare China to the two largest producers of news media in the world, the UK and the USA, and show that those actors are so bad that they are complicit in launching wars and killing millions. What I left unsaid was that China has never used narrative control over news media to manufacture consent for wars that killed millions.
On this basis, I argue that China could not possibly be considered exceptional EXCEPT perhaps in the opposite way you meant it. China is exceptional in that it’s use of narrative control has led to far fewer deaths overall, has led to far fewer wars and military conflicts, and has led to far less human rights violations. No doubt you will key in on this last item and make something of it.
Instead of seeing my argument as actually attacking your position with evidence, you return to your thought-terminating cliche:
I assume you meant to write, “Move on with” but honestly I don’t know.
You then pivot:
Now your claim is no longer that China is an “exceptionally bad actor” in “taking what is said of context and using very key clips to drive a narrative” but rather that China does not allow media which dissents from the state propaganda while Western nations do.
This requires an entirely NEW set of evidence and arguments, which I will not provide you, because you deserve only to be shamed for your impetuousness. Don’t fucking claim that I am a bot when you can’t even keep track of your own fucking position, you milquetoast.
So let’s review:
So you can fuck right off to wherever people accept this level of asinine “discourse” where you just bang out cliches and vibes and have the memory of a goddamned goldfish and where the only people who could possibly disagree with you and try to hold you accountable are bots, because I don’t want to fucking deal with your shit.
Ah China, the perfect nation. Lol
For one so sage, and we’ll versed in the world, I take it you have nothing bad to say about china after all? Their spotless reputation.
They don’t appear to be selling bombs for the genocide in Gaza, and they didn’t destroy Vietnam, as 2 examples of atrocities carried out by the US. Or the war in Afghanistan. I am happy to talk about how shitty Britain and the US are, because fuck anyone involved in those wars. What about China’s role in funding Russia attacking Ukraine? What about the Uyghur people or Tibet?
I guess as a litmess test can you even talk about Tiananmen square?
As a Chinese propagandist can you in fact talk negatively about china? Or will everything you say merely defend it?
Typical brain-rotten liberal, continuing to protect your fragile psyche. You can’t deal with the fact that I just exposed your worm-like wriggling, so you have to pivot, yet again, by now accusing me of believing China is a perfect nation, engaging in whataboutism, and then assuming I’m a paid Chinese propagandist who is under the tyrannical rule of the evil commies.
So here’s some fun facts for you. I am a white cis het American man, born in the tri-state area to white cis het parents. I went to public school, just like most of us, and likely you. I consumed all of the propaganda, just like you did. I experienced all the same social pressures to conform and virtue signal. I was a boy scout, ffs. I learned how to treat an American flag with reverence and respect, something I still do today whenever I am tasked with managing a flag. My indoctrination is deep enough that when I see someone let a flag touch the floor I feel it in my body.
But what makes me different from you is that I allow new information to challenge my deeply held beliefs, and I am willing to wrestle with the consequences of doing that. I don’t just pivot every time someone confronts me with ideas that would challenge my beliefs. I study, I research, I write things out for myself, I debate with others who disagree with me to learn and not to win.
Yes I can talk about Tiananmen Square, about how tank man stood in front of a column of tanks, bringing them to halt. How the tank driver opened the hatch and had a chat with the man. How eventually that man came to understanding with the tank operator and with other protestors and he moved out of the way and the tanks continued on their journey. I can talk about how there were American journalists on the ground reporting on the student protests before, during, and after the supposed “massacre” and they all report that there was no massacre. I can talk about how the students literally killed multiple soldiers who didn’t fight back, how the students seized military rifles and turned their peaceful protest violent. Yeah, I can talk about it, because unlike you, I’ve done some research on it and I don’t assume that everyone who disagreed with the narrative I was raised on is some kind of evil agent.
I like how your examples of China’s bad actions are limited to Xinjiang and Tibet though. You don’t know anything of the actual really bad things China did in the first few decades after the victory of the communists. You don’t know the history of the things that you could actually use to show China has done some really fucked up things. And you don’t know these events because you don’t care about backing your beliefs up with reality. You’re content to just vibe.
Am I going to sit here and try to give you information about Xinjiang, Tibet, and Ukraine? No, of course not. Because it would be a waste of my time. You have demonstrated that you refuse to engage with literally anything that challenges your fragile psyche - you won’t even engage with your own fucking words when they’re presented back at you in a way that shows your complete disregard for truth, consistency, integrity, or honesty.
Stick to your guns. When you ask for information - ignore it. When you’re accused of pivoting, just pivot again. When you’re being accused of hypocrisy, just scream whataboutism. When you don’t know history, just rely on your vibes and accuse others of being special agents that are paid to fight with you. On the internet. For money.
Do you, boo.
Lol when actually asked about the stuff china is doing though you have repeatedly just hand waved it as I won’t go into that. You say stuff to establish yourself as an expert and yet have done nothing but just called me a brain rot liberal. You in fact have 0 concept of my background or upbringing and have just assumed because I have sat on my mobile phone and haven’t taken the time to go point by point explaining what I meant that I am some inferior person with no intellect of ability to think critically about my world view or escape the brainwashing I have been subjected to.
Please, enlighten me on all the truly bad stuff china did in the first years, talk about it. (Implication of your statement being that stuff is now over) Up to this point all you have actually done is speak positively about Tienammen square and hand waved “bad stuff” for china without saying it. Do it. Im worth all this other “time” you spent, but I’m not worth taking the time on actually saying anything bad about china? Still sounds like you aren’t who you say you are.
Are you going to tell me the Chinese government doesn’t threaten dissenters (and dissenters families) at home and abroad? Are you going to describe their state run media as free speech? It’s the government protecting the people from themselves. The censorship and control the government exerts on their society for their own people’s good?
When actually asked about china, to this point all you have said is I’m not actually going to go into that. I call bullshit.
And you describe yourself as allowing your long held beliefs to be challenged. Please tell me more. What are your beliefs?