Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni announced the creation of new Identification and Expulsion Centers after the island received a record-breaking 12,000 migrants in just four days
The EU as we know it is the EU with the Schengen area, free inter European movement and choice of residence. The ability to work and live anywhere in the Union. The Union without border controls. This is very much at risk due to the unwillingness to curb economic immigration.
The immigration crisis is caused by liberal dogma and capitalist desire to maintain poverty wages, which are being suppressed by the constant influx of desperate laborers who are willing to work for crumbs. The new arrivals are not properly integrated into their host society, neither on an economic nor a cultural level, causing subcultures to form that feel no longer affiliated with the greater society as a whole.
You realize that without the influence of workers the poverty will explode because noone can work for the pensions of all the old people?
Also parrallel societies are created by the main societies. You know the main societies where people with the same ideology as you hunt people in the streets for having the wrong skin colour, or looking muslim or jewish or gay.
The reactionaries and fascist deliberately hinder integration so they have a scapegoat to blame when they rob the people. But we already see, that immigrants and refugees are not enough so they revert back to attacking Jews and LGBT communities.
Im not opposed to immigration, but it is simply a fact of reality that we are doing it wrong, and the result is a re emerging right.
As for the reduction in labor force that would occur without a constant influx of desperate unskilled workers: the basic system of supply and demand would then cause wages to skyrocket, transferring wealth to the lower and middle class on a large scale in the short term, and spur technological advancements in automation to compensate, proper governmental regulation provided to prevent outsourcing.
This in turn will require a shift to full UBI and automation taxes to keep society functional, finally putting us on a track to a post-scarcity future.
In short, constant, unrestricted immigration does both the refugees facing growing resentment and the marginalized native lower class a disservice by helping the ruling class to keep their labor suppressed.
i think you are seperating cause and effect and give them one direction, where it is a multitude.
We are also doing immugration wrong because of the new power of the right. They want to make things worse, so they can give these as scapegoats. The German Fascist party AfD themselves said, that if it is bad for Germany it is good for them.
If you think supply and demand would just cause wages to rise and things to work out i have two bad news: The first is that the system is getting rigged against the workers, in particular by right and far right parties. They will increase work hours, the retirement age and introduce mandatory “social years” aka forced labor, before allowing their rich donors to have to pay significantly higher wages.
The second is that it doesnt matter if your wage doubles or triples nominally. With less laborers tu support the unproductive elders all we will see is a huge wage and price inflation, until the retirees are priced out of life. Money is just an exchange tool. If the input and outputs of the economy get disbalanced it doesnt matter how much money you assign to it. And all the automation we had so far went fuck all to benefit the workers. Instead it jsut made the rich more rich. That will not change.
Also i dont get why you talk about social issues and think that these are caused by immigration and not by a powerful capitalist elite that is proposing “market based solutions” only when it benefits them and keep the current status quo despite all economic reason. The issues remain the same in countries with low immigrataion and in the countries with higher immigration now they werent better befor either.
I definitely believe most of our problems are caused by capitalism and the ruling class working to keep things as they are (we in Germany have a similarly extreme wealth disparity between the extremely rich and everyone else as the United States for example).
Obvious from the leftist phrasing I am using, also not an afd voter. We need immigration to keep our societies functional, but we can’t keep doing it they way it happens now. It endangers the European project and stirs social unrest, in addition to the economic effects they have on the native lower class.
My suggestion would be a dual strategy of expanded border security with consequent repatriation of illegal immigrants, paired with the creation of large scale immigration preparation and processing centers in their countries of origin to facilitate a means of legal immigration that also prepares them for a life in a pluralist, socially liberal western society.
They should also provide dignified living standards and safety according to western standards. These centers could also provide access to language education, cultural introduction, or even teach/certify applicable skills that will make entrance into the new job market more successful.
Now I’m not saying I have all the answers or that my idea is necessarily the best, but I would draw a direct line from our decades of non negotiable open door policy to people secretly unhappy about this suddenly clamoring to vote for the one party that wants the opposite, now that the political climate has shifted far enough.
Immigration is an issue people care about emotionally, if it’s ultra rich assholes who also want to give themselves more money in the process, that matters only as an afterthought at best.
Unless there is a non far right political option that is reconsidering their stance on immigration, it is essentially impossible to retrieve those angry single issue voters, even if there is plenty of proof that they are shooting themselves in the foot (just yesterday I saw a summary of AfD votes, where they voted against everything but tax cuts for the rich and welfare cuts for the poor).
To the current no questions asked, no guidance provided, no integration required policy? Obviously. That’s not being opposed to immigration though. Feel free to read my other comments on this as well
This is conflating so many things it’s almost impossible to reply.
The EU as we know it is the EU with the Schengen area
EU and Schengen are different things.
There are Schengen countries that are not in the EU and EU members that are not in the Schengen zone.
unwillingness to curb economic immigration
Every ‘expat’ from the US, every Indian programmer, every EU citizen working in another EU country is an ‘economic immigrant’.
That has nothing to do with Lampedusa.
capitalist desire to maintain poverty wages
What are you on about? Those people aren’t even allowed to work.
The new arrivals are not properly integrated into their host society
Yes, they are kept in an overcrowded camp on a small Italian island.
The EU as we know it is the EU with the Schengen area, free inter European movement and choice of residence. The ability to work and live anywhere in the Union. The Union without border controls. This is very much at risk due to the unwillingness to curb economic immigration.
The immigration crisis is caused by liberal dogma and capitalist desire to maintain poverty wages, which are being suppressed by the constant influx of desperate laborers who are willing to work for crumbs. The new arrivals are not properly integrated into their host society, neither on an economic nor a cultural level, causing subcultures to form that feel no longer affiliated with the greater society as a whole.
You realize that without the influence of workers the poverty will explode because noone can work for the pensions of all the old people?
Also parrallel societies are created by the main societies. You know the main societies where people with the same ideology as you hunt people in the streets for having the wrong skin colour, or looking muslim or jewish or gay.
The reactionaries and fascist deliberately hinder integration so they have a scapegoat to blame when they rob the people. But we already see, that immigrants and refugees are not enough so they revert back to attacking Jews and LGBT communities.
Im not opposed to immigration, but it is simply a fact of reality that we are doing it wrong, and the result is a re emerging right.
As for the reduction in labor force that would occur without a constant influx of desperate unskilled workers: the basic system of supply and demand would then cause wages to skyrocket, transferring wealth to the lower and middle class on a large scale in the short term, and spur technological advancements in automation to compensate, proper governmental regulation provided to prevent outsourcing.
This in turn will require a shift to full UBI and automation taxes to keep society functional, finally putting us on a track to a post-scarcity future.
In short, constant, unrestricted immigration does both the refugees facing growing resentment and the marginalized native lower class a disservice by helping the ruling class to keep their labor suppressed.
i think you are seperating cause and effect and give them one direction, where it is a multitude.
We are also doing immugration wrong because of the new power of the right. They want to make things worse, so they can give these as scapegoats. The German Fascist party AfD themselves said, that if it is bad for Germany it is good for them.
If you think supply and demand would just cause wages to rise and things to work out i have two bad news: The first is that the system is getting rigged against the workers, in particular by right and far right parties. They will increase work hours, the retirement age and introduce mandatory “social years” aka forced labor, before allowing their rich donors to have to pay significantly higher wages.
The second is that it doesnt matter if your wage doubles or triples nominally. With less laborers tu support the unproductive elders all we will see is a huge wage and price inflation, until the retirees are priced out of life. Money is just an exchange tool. If the input and outputs of the economy get disbalanced it doesnt matter how much money you assign to it. And all the automation we had so far went fuck all to benefit the workers. Instead it jsut made the rich more rich. That will not change.
Also i dont get why you talk about social issues and think that these are caused by immigration and not by a powerful capitalist elite that is proposing “market based solutions” only when it benefits them and keep the current status quo despite all economic reason. The issues remain the same in countries with low immigrataion and in the countries with higher immigration now they werent better befor either.
I definitely believe most of our problems are caused by capitalism and the ruling class working to keep things as they are (we in Germany have a similarly extreme wealth disparity between the extremely rich and everyone else as the United States for example).
Obvious from the leftist phrasing I am using, also not an afd voter. We need immigration to keep our societies functional, but we can’t keep doing it they way it happens now. It endangers the European project and stirs social unrest, in addition to the economic effects they have on the native lower class.
My suggestion would be a dual strategy of expanded border security with consequent repatriation of illegal immigrants, paired with the creation of large scale immigration preparation and processing centers in their countries of origin to facilitate a means of legal immigration that also prepares them for a life in a pluralist, socially liberal western society.
They should also provide dignified living standards and safety according to western standards. These centers could also provide access to language education, cultural introduction, or even teach/certify applicable skills that will make entrance into the new job market more successful.
Now I’m not saying I have all the answers or that my idea is necessarily the best, but I would draw a direct line from our decades of non negotiable open door policy to people secretly unhappy about this suddenly clamoring to vote for the one party that wants the opposite, now that the political climate has shifted far enough.
Immigration is an issue people care about emotionally, if it’s ultra rich assholes who also want to give themselves more money in the process, that matters only as an afterthought at best. Unless there is a non far right political option that is reconsidering their stance on immigration, it is essentially impossible to retrieve those angry single issue voters, even if there is plenty of proof that they are shooting themselves in the foot (just yesterday I saw a summary of AfD votes, where they voted against everything but tax cuts for the rich and welfare cuts for the poor).
“I’m not opposed”
“BUT”
You’re opposed
To the current no questions asked, no guidance provided, no integration required policy? Obviously. That’s not being opposed to immigration though. Feel free to read my other comments on this as well
This is conflating so many things it’s almost impossible to reply.
EU and Schengen are different things.
There are Schengen countries that are not in the EU and EU members that are not in the Schengen zone.
Every ‘expat’ from the US, every Indian programmer, every EU citizen working in another EU country is an ‘economic immigrant’.
That has nothing to do with Lampedusa.
What are you on about? Those people aren’t even allowed to work.
Yes, they are kept in an overcrowded camp on a small Italian island.