President Biden attended a fundraiser in San Francisco late Wednesday where protesters showed up calling for an end to US aid for Israel and a cease-fire in its ongoing war in Gaza.
I disagree. The situation is not simple and one sided. For example, I can easily say that if you are for immediate cease fire, then you are for Hamas staying in power. And Hamas does openly state that they would like to destroy all Jews in Israel and Israel itself, and in fact were showing how they would do it by recent events. Basically Hamas official policy is Jewish genocide. So, that makes you genocide supporter, right?
I can easily say that if you are for immediate cease fire,
“But did they CoNdEmN Hamas?!” has gotten quite worn out. The answer is… nobody except Hamas is for Hamas. Most people have condemned hamas. Most people are not for Hamas, and that argument only holds water with people that have already decided to support genocide.
Hamas continues reflecting legitimacy of Israel, it never recognized it. Read any encyclopedia entry on Hamas. Sure, they would like to get all the land according to 1967 agreement, but they do not promise to recognize Israel even then.
I reject the legitimacy of Israel. It was built on terrorism, won a few wars, had a chance to create a stable solution and passed, and is now an Apartheid state at best.
Not recognizing Israel doesn’t mean anything else. It’s the diplomatic version of pretending someone is invisible.
It denies right to exist. It is not “invisibility game”. It has direct goal to erase the state and people in it. Hamas actions directly confirm it. For years it attacked civilian population with the goal of eradicate it. They are openly stating this the same multiple times themselves. They are showing it in their murderous actions and you pretend that it is some kind of “invisibility game”? Just Google “Hamas statements about Israel right to exist”. They want to physically destroy it. Jezus!
Edit: Also, your double standards appalling: you reject Israel legitimacy because 70years ago they used terrorism tactics to get rid of Brits. But you seems totaly OK with Hamas today.
I have never said I was okay with terrorists. You can have those words back. And the charter means exactly what it says. We didn’t commit genocide when we denied Saddam’s Iraq or Hitler’s Germany an existence. And not recognizing a state has a known international meaning. No amount of word salad trying to conflate terrorist attacks with genocide can undo that.
The goal of Hamas, stated many times, is to destroy Israel. Hamas actions are terrorism. Hamas goal is genocide aimed against one specific group of people. Your example of WW2 is actually a good one. It was not a genocide despite of the fact that Allies bombed essentially to zero cities like Dresden. Allies goal was to remove Nazi from power. Israel goal is to remove Hamas from power. So, what’s the difference?
The difference is Dresden was a one off war crime. We didn’t keep doing it to every urban area, we didn’t corral civilians, and we certainly didn’t deny them food aid.
Based on how dead set you are on them killing Israelis, are you sure it’s not just you wanting to kill Israelis?
You sure about all that? Hunger within German population was present, the red army (part of the Allies) was known for rapes, and Israel did not bomb to the extend Allies bombed Dresden, not even close. The civilian losses in WW2 were massive. The cities after WW2 were in ruins, and both sides (with exception of Paris) did not hesitate to bomb cities if there were military targets including military manufacturing facilities.
Yes war is ugly, but not every war is genocide, most of them are not.
That “source” dives straight into debunked Israeli propaganda. From repeatedly claiming Hamas took control of Gaza by force to repeating the debunked claim about beheaded babies. Then it ignores anything written after the year 2000.
It buries the fact that Hamas won election more than ten paragraphs down. As if to provide the author a defense of having mentioned it.
They also completely neglect to mention Hamas won that election on a moderate platform and was immediately attacked by Israel, physically and politically, for doing so. When the result of a moderate, anti-corruption, party winning is an immediate de facto declaration of war, I don’t see how anyone can objectively claim Hamas as the oppressor.
Now to the current situation. Israel should be dissolved. The commission of a genocide is beyond the rights of any state and is a clear sign they cannot be trusted partners in peace. The only right answer is a UN transition government to a representative democracy that gives everyone rights to vote and bars the military from acting inside the borders of the successor state.
Let’s not pretend that destroying Israel means just dissolving the state. Hamas quite clearly demonstrated this with recent attack aimed to brutally kill 1000+ of civilian Jews.
Oh no. We’re going to mean it. Because the UN has done it before. Israel isn’t some special snowflake. The Jews who live there can learn to live with their neighbors under an objective and fair government.
Just gonna say: Hamas’s official policy is that a two-state solution would be enough as accomplishment of their goals. That aside, even if Hamas goes away someone worse will take their place. To steal a random quote from the internet: The next generation of Palestinian terrorists/freedom fighters will think and do things that will make ISIS look like peace-loving hippies.
I disagree. The situation is not simple and one sided. For example, I can easily say that if you are for immediate cease fire, then you are for Hamas staying in power. And Hamas does openly state that they would like to destroy all Jews in Israel and Israel itself, and in fact were showing how they would do it by recent events. Basically Hamas official policy is Jewish genocide. So, that makes you genocide supporter, right?
“But did they CoNdEmN Hamas?!” has gotten quite worn out. The answer is… nobody except Hamas is for Hamas. Most people have condemned hamas. Most people are not for Hamas, and that argument only holds water with people that have already decided to support genocide.
Hamas’ official policy is to accept the 1967 borders and a two state solution. It seems like you have a problem separating reality from propaganda.
Hamas continues reflecting legitimacy of Israel, it never recognized it. Read any encyclopedia entry on Hamas. Sure, they would like to get all the land according to 1967 agreement, but they do not promise to recognize Israel even then.
I reject the legitimacy of Israel. It was built on terrorism, won a few wars, had a chance to create a stable solution and passed, and is now an Apartheid state at best.
Not recognizing Israel doesn’t mean anything else. It’s the diplomatic version of pretending someone is invisible.
It denies right to exist. It is not “invisibility game”. It has direct goal to erase the state and people in it. Hamas actions directly confirm it. For years it attacked civilian population with the goal of eradicate it. They are openly stating this the same multiple times themselves. They are showing it in their murderous actions and you pretend that it is some kind of “invisibility game”? Just Google “Hamas statements about Israel right to exist”. They want to physically destroy it. Jezus!
Edit: Also, your double standards appalling: you reject Israel legitimacy because 70years ago they used terrorism tactics to get rid of Brits. But you seems totaly OK with Hamas today.
I have never said I was okay with terrorists. You can have those words back. And the charter means exactly what it says. We didn’t commit genocide when we denied Saddam’s Iraq or Hitler’s Germany an existence. And not recognizing a state has a known international meaning. No amount of word salad trying to conflate terrorist attacks with genocide can undo that.
The goal of Hamas, stated many times, is to destroy Israel. Hamas actions are terrorism. Hamas goal is genocide aimed against one specific group of people. Your example of WW2 is actually a good one. It was not a genocide despite of the fact that Allies bombed essentially to zero cities like Dresden. Allies goal was to remove Nazi from power. Israel goal is to remove Hamas from power. So, what’s the difference?
The difference is Dresden was a one off war crime. We didn’t keep doing it to every urban area, we didn’t corral civilians, and we certainly didn’t deny them food aid.
Based on how dead set you are on them killing Israelis, are you sure it’s not just you wanting to kill Israelis?
You sure about all that? Hunger within German population was present, the red army (part of the Allies) was known for rapes, and Israel did not bomb to the extend Allies bombed Dresden, not even close. The civilian losses in WW2 were massive. The cities after WW2 were in ruins, and both sides (with exception of Paris) did not hesitate to bomb cities if there were military targets including military manufacturing facilities.
Yes war is ugly, but not every war is genocide, most of them are not.
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That “source” dives straight into debunked Israeli propaganda. From repeatedly claiming Hamas took control of Gaza by force to repeating the debunked claim about beheaded babies. Then it ignores anything written after the year 2000.
It buries the fact that Hamas won election more than ten paragraphs down. As if to provide the author a defense of having mentioned it.
They also completely neglect to mention Hamas won that election on a moderate platform and was immediately attacked by Israel, physically and politically, for doing so. When the result of a moderate, anti-corruption, party winning is an immediate de facto declaration of war, I don’t see how anyone can objectively claim Hamas as the oppressor.
Now to the current situation. Israel should be dissolved. The commission of a genocide is beyond the rights of any state and is a clear sign they cannot be trusted partners in peace. The only right answer is a UN transition government to a representative democracy that gives everyone rights to vote and bars the military from acting inside the borders of the successor state.
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Israel is a country. Dissolving a country and putting a regional transition government in place is not a genocide.
But I’m not surprised you’d try to associate it as such.
Let’s not pretend that destroying Israel means just dissolving the state. Hamas quite clearly demonstrated this with recent attack aimed to brutally kill 1000+ of civilian Jews.
Oh no. We’re going to mean it. Because the UN has done it before. Israel isn’t some special snowflake. The Jews who live there can learn to live with their neighbors under an objective and fair government.
The country is not the people.
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If Harvard came out and said there were 5G microchips in vaccines I would press F to doubt too.
Since the Israeli’s are being genocided, wouldn’t that be a good reason for a ceasefire?
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Why? Protesting Israel achieves the same goal.
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Netanyahu states:
Which is impossible without eliminating Palestine and virtually all Palestinians.
Just gonna say: Hamas’s official policy is that a two-state solution would be enough as accomplishment of their goals. That aside, even if Hamas goes away someone worse will take their place. To steal a random quote from the internet: The next generation of Palestinian terrorists/freedom fighters will think and do things that will make ISIS look like peace-loving hippies.
This is what happens when you give no accountability to an ENTIRE NATION. They devolve into a country of Donald Trumps.
The difference of threat levels of Hamas compared to Israelis is night and day.