• gibmiser@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    arrow-down
    27
    ·
    9 months ago

    Well, I think the US public has been pretty vocal about this compared to most issues. People are really pissed at Biden. So don’t change the subject.

    I think it’s time we start publicly shaming Israelis and Jews who don’t make strong statements condemning the murder of civilians and protesting the reckless-at-best and seemingly genocidal actions of their government.

    • CaractacusPotts@lemmy.caOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      44
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      9 months ago

      publicly shaming Israelis and Jews

      This is about Zionism. It’s not about Jews. If you make it about Jews you are falling for the Zionist tactic of equating the two. Do better

      • gibmiser@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        11
        ·
        9 months ago

        Really I just meant the international community of Jewish people. Many of them have strong opinions about matters related to Israel.

        • gregorum@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          23
          ·
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          As a member of the international community of Jews, I think what Israel is doing is monstrous and disgusting. But I am in no way responsible for what they do. I don’t live there, I’ve never been there, and I have zero ability to influence Israeli policy beyond expressing my disapproval, which I often do.

          Stop spreading the misinformation that Israel = all Jews.

          • gibmiser@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            10
            ·
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            I understand your frustration at what I am saying, but I believe you have more influence over the Israeli people than I do as a non-jew. Am I wrong? I just imagine that Israeli jews would take more seriously and be more introspective after receiving critical comments from a fellow Jewish person, who presumably is more in tune with the worries and historical context of the Jewish community than a non Jewish person is.

            My opinion is more easily decried as antisemitic or ignorant and waved away. Yours is not.

            When Christians do horrible things in the name of god, don’t you think being called out by other Christians is going to carry some more weight?

            • gregorum@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              11
              ·
              edit-2
              9 months ago

              What would make you think this? Just because we happen to share an ethnicity doesn’t mean an entire nation will listen to me or give me any entitlement to tell them what to do. Nor is it my responsibility, as a Jew.

              And people who make decisions based on ancient mythology aren’t exactly making rational decisions in the first place, so I don’t know why an appeal on that basis would work. I may be a Jew, but I’m also an atheist. The last thing this situation needs is more religion.

              • gibmiser@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                8
                ·
                9 months ago

                Unfortunately, there’s no commonly accepted distinction between Jews who practice Judaism, Zionists, and ethnic Jews, At least not that I’m aware of. I do recognize that there is a difference, And if I were you, I would be pointing out the difference also.

                I’m sorry, man.It sounds like this is rough for you to be tied to these people by the Jewish label. I hope sometime in this century. All this b******* gets sorted out For everyone’s sake.

                • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  8
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  9 months ago

                  The difference between Jews and Zionists is the same as between Christians and Christo-Fascists.

                  Believers vs. Believers who believe they need to be in control because God picked them and all others are lesser.

                  Folks are welcome to believe what they want to believe, it’s when they want to use that belief to restrict other people that it’s a problem.

                • gregorum@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  9 months ago

                  Yes there is— you just listed them. And what i find especially despicable is people like you who speak out of both sides of your mouth while disingenuously trying to appear “understanding” and civil. If you really felt bad for anyone, you wouldn’t be here making accusations and “just asking questions” in bad faith, trying to provoke an argument.

                  • gibmiser@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    5
                    ·
                    9 months ago

                    I said commonly accepted. I’m sorry, but those distinctions are lost on the general public.And what we need is the general public to put pressure on politicians. But sure, whatever, Let’s get pissy and fight amongst ourselves. I’m sure that will help.

                    And don’t compare me to that just asking questions Tucker Carlson, bullshit. I don’t care where you live. I don’t think it’s a big ask for someone to stand up and say killing civilians is a bad thing.

    • macrocephalic@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      ·
      9 months ago

      I think it’s time we start publicly shaming Israelis and Jews who don’t make strong statements condemning the murder of civilians and protesting the reckless-at-best and seemingly genocidal actions of their government.

      Are you deliberately trying to use the same language as was used against Muslims 20 years ago?

      • gibmiser@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        9 months ago

        No, I guess I don’t get your reference, unless you are referring to 911?

        If so it would be the Americans needing to condemn their government for invading Iraq, not the Muslims condemning 911.