I am not incorrect. Your whole premise rests on an assumption that you can tell if a State is “good”, benevolent and will last forever. What happens if the current communist party degrades and is replaced by another communist party or by a different faction within it? Uh oh, now you are someone who was a snitch for the previous government, perhaps even snitching on their comrades (they don’t know who you’ve snitched on). Now you’re labeled an informant and a suspicious character by the new communist party in power. That’s from a personal/pragmatic standpoint.
Now for the “collective” standpoint: Snitching is bad in all countries, socialist or not. If you live in a building with people and you inform on them, guess what? You’ll be excluded from all social life. You’ll just have to contact the police when you need a few extra chairs for a party you’re having, cause the neighbours aren’t gonna give it to you.
The aim of individualist liberalism is for us to have social contracts with the state and not with each other. I’d much rather people come to me directly if I’m doing something wrong (maybe I don’t know it’s wrong) than to have the police come knocking on my door. I’m sure that’s the same for most people. And what is the girl’s (in OP) “crime”? She expressed an opinion. She didn’t form an anti-Chinese group, she didn’t pass State secrets to the CIA, she didn’t have secret meetings at her home where they performed Falun Gong rituals…
People don’t snitch for noble causes like “protecting the revolution” or “guarding the State”, people snitch out of envy, or because it makes them feel in control or better than others. Call me a liberal all you want, but I don’t want to live in a country full of snitches.
I want you to know I’m not downvoting this comment of yours.
Now for the “collective” standpoint: Snitching is bad in all countries, socialist or not. If you live in a building with people and you inform on them, guess what? You’ll be excluded from all social life. You’ll just have to contact the police when you need a few extra chairs for a party you’re having, cause the neighbours aren’t gonna give it to you.
Easily falsified. I hear someone being beaten by their SO or sexually assaulted. Rather than knock on their door and kindly ask them not to do that. I snitch. If I’m excluded because of that I don’t give a fuck.
Your mistake is assuming for some reason that I’m talking about writing daily reports on what people had for lunch, for every little human foible and problem they have like it’s my job. Let’s be clear, let’s get back to the issue because you’re being dishonest and moving the goalposts and discussion here. We were originally talking about a Chinese girl, college aged who is spreading lies, not like little being confronted by classmates and lying to not create tension but boastful bragging lies about her country, about the communist party and just generally being a traitor to her people and the revolution.
There is a world of difference between reporting someone like that. And I want to be clear, I am a committed person so if anyone were someone I thought was a danger to a socialist state, were trying to overthrow it, undermine it (and she is undermining it, the US has a strategy of containment, strangulation, decoupling, etc and it relies on spreading propaganda not that they need her help but they offer it), I think that’s worth reporting. If I lived in a building and people were conspiring against the in-power communist party and engaging in reactionary thinking I’d report that shit.
You apparently wouldn’t. You like most liberals would prefer a false peace. You prefer compromise over dedication and struggle. You and a disheartening amount of people in this thread prefer to preserve friendships and in the process betray Marxism, betray comrades who have given their lives. To deny, to stand down when asked to defend the revolution. To do anything to harm or inconvenience liberals.
Again, Mao has written about this. This is not new, you are not thinking of some brand new thing. I can’t speak to where you come from. Maybe you’re from a community where snitching is done to capitalist and racist powers but that doesn’t apply here anymore than hating on the police does. That’s an anarcho-liberal position. That’s a knee-jerk, unexamined, lacking will to use power position. That’s a lay down and be destroyed position.
I hope there are people unlike many in this thread when the time comes who have the resolve to actually act, to turn against their family if they are fascists, to turn against friends if they are our enemies. Otherwise they spit on the graves of the comrades who have come before and otherwise there is no point. Give up. We might as well scrap Marxism right now and try for voluntary friendship communism by means of electoralism and gradual reform under capitalism which as we know is not a path to success but attitudes like yours mean it’s the only way forward.
I am watching a genocide, helplessly. I’m protesting, but I’m not stopping it. It is being perpetrated by these types of liberals. Besides the objective, rational arguments which I have laid out, which many thinkers like Mao have laid out, there is the fact these people deserve what they get. You don’t get to laugh at the idea of cops being killed in the west or whatever else adventurist violence or happenstance and then duck and hide behind “oh that’s envy, oh that’s emotional” as if you’re not engaging in the same, as if tons of people here don’t do that.
Here’s some examples of snitching from the West:
Listen here. I have said this again and again and again and either you are in very bad faith OR I’m not being eloquent and expressing myself properly.
The west doing bad things is not the same as us doing good things. The west use authority to abuse and crush the workers, that does not mean as your liberal thinking would have it that we renounce authority or using it. The west uses police to crush workers. In a socialist state they are part of protecting the workers and once again we do not renounce them. Extend that logically to what we are talking about.
That said, I’m done. It’s like talking to a brick wall and I’m tired of bumping this thread to respond to people who are not presenting new or novel arguments, who are not presenting interesting points of view and who are not I think increasingly engaging in good faith or at least we’re on such different wavelengths there can be no conversation.
I am not incorrect. Your whole premise rests on an assumption that you can tell if a State is “good”, benevolent and will last forever. What happens if the current communist party degrades and is replaced by another communist party or by a different faction within it? Uh oh, now you are someone who was a snitch for the previous government, perhaps even snitching on their comrades (they don’t know who you’ve snitched on). Now you’re labeled an informant and a suspicious character by the new communist party in power. That’s from a personal/pragmatic standpoint.
Now for the “collective” standpoint: Snitching is bad in all countries, socialist or not. If you live in a building with people and you inform on them, guess what? You’ll be excluded from all social life. You’ll just have to contact the police when you need a few extra chairs for a party you’re having, cause the neighbours aren’t gonna give it to you.
The aim of individualist liberalism is for us to have social contracts with the state and not with each other. I’d much rather people come to me directly if I’m doing something wrong (maybe I don’t know it’s wrong) than to have the police come knocking on my door. I’m sure that’s the same for most people. And what is the girl’s (in OP) “crime”? She expressed an opinion. She didn’t form an anti-Chinese group, she didn’t pass State secrets to the CIA, she didn’t have secret meetings at her home where they performed Falun Gong rituals…
Here’s some examples of snitching from the West:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/13/lockdowns-uk-true-character-nation-snitches-useless-leaders
https://phys.org/news/2022-11-covid-australians-snitching-neighbors.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/pleasure-peril-snitching-pandemic-1.5544367
https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-lockdown-snitches-thrive-in-europe-reports-watchmen-spying-neighbors/
People don’t snitch for noble causes like “protecting the revolution” or “guarding the State”, people snitch out of envy, or because it makes them feel in control or better than others. Call me a liberal all you want, but I don’t want to live in a country full of snitches.
I don’t downvote comments, only upvote or not.
Easily falsified. I hear someone being beaten by their SO or sexually assaulted. Rather than knock on their door and kindly ask them not to do that. I snitch. If I’m excluded because of that I don’t give a fuck.
Your mistake is assuming for some reason that I’m talking about writing daily reports on what people had for lunch, for every little human foible and problem they have like it’s my job. Let’s be clear, let’s get back to the issue because you’re being dishonest and moving the goalposts and discussion here. We were originally talking about a Chinese girl, college aged who is spreading lies, not like little being confronted by classmates and lying to not create tension but boastful bragging lies about her country, about the communist party and just generally being a traitor to her people and the revolution.
There is a world of difference between reporting someone like that. And I want to be clear, I am a committed person so if anyone were someone I thought was a danger to a socialist state, were trying to overthrow it, undermine it (and she is undermining it, the US has a strategy of containment, strangulation, decoupling, etc and it relies on spreading propaganda not that they need her help but they offer it), I think that’s worth reporting. If I lived in a building and people were conspiring against the in-power communist party and engaging in reactionary thinking I’d report that shit.
You apparently wouldn’t. You like most liberals would prefer a false peace. You prefer compromise over dedication and struggle. You and a disheartening amount of people in this thread prefer to preserve friendships and in the process betray Marxism, betray comrades who have given their lives. To deny, to stand down when asked to defend the revolution. To do anything to harm or inconvenience liberals.
Again, Mao has written about this. This is not new, you are not thinking of some brand new thing. I can’t speak to where you come from. Maybe you’re from a community where snitching is done to capitalist and racist powers but that doesn’t apply here anymore than hating on the police does. That’s an anarcho-liberal position. That’s a knee-jerk, unexamined, lacking will to use power position. That’s a lay down and be destroyed position.
I hope there are people unlike many in this thread when the time comes who have the resolve to actually act, to turn against their family if they are fascists, to turn against friends if they are our enemies. Otherwise they spit on the graves of the comrades who have come before and otherwise there is no point. Give up. We might as well scrap Marxism right now and try for voluntary friendship communism by means of electoralism and gradual reform under capitalism which as we know is not a path to success but attitudes like yours mean it’s the only way forward.
I am watching a genocide, helplessly. I’m protesting, but I’m not stopping it. It is being perpetrated by these types of liberals. Besides the objective, rational arguments which I have laid out, which many thinkers like Mao have laid out, there is the fact these people deserve what they get. You don’t get to laugh at the idea of cops being killed in the west or whatever else adventurist violence or happenstance and then duck and hide behind “oh that’s envy, oh that’s emotional” as if you’re not engaging in the same, as if tons of people here don’t do that.
Listen here. I have said this again and again and again and either you are in very bad faith OR I’m not being eloquent and expressing myself properly.
The west doing bad things is not the same as us doing good things. The west use authority to abuse and crush the workers, that does not mean as your liberal thinking would have it that we renounce authority or using it. The west uses police to crush workers. In a socialist state they are part of protecting the workers and once again we do not renounce them. Extend that logically to what we are talking about.
That said, I’m done. It’s like talking to a brick wall and I’m tired of bumping this thread to respond to people who are not presenting new or novel arguments, who are not presenting interesting points of view and who are not I think increasingly engaging in good faith or at least we’re on such different wavelengths there can be no conversation.
You’re really a debate bro aren’t you? lolololol