Welcome to the trolley problem.
I always always hated that problem. It is so contrived. Have you seen trolleys? They are freaken slow and full of safeties. Also the workers would have locked out the line.
It is a quick read. One of a handful of stories that I have gone back to over the decades.
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Like what happens in the anthropocene to pretty much all animals except dogs & cats lol
Star Trek Strange New Worlds recently did an interpretation of this story
https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-ones-who-stay-and-fight/
Someone made a response story of sorts, figure I might as well share it here
I mean, most Christians would say yes because that’s the entire premise of the crucifixion.
This interpretation leaves out the most important part of the crucifixion story: Jesus willingly took on the world’s sins out of love. So whether or not most Christians would say yes depends on if the one person being tortured has a choice in the matter, which is unspecified in the question.
I came to say the same thing. This is exactly what Christianity believes.
But of course, it was Jesus who gave himself willingly.
If he was forced to do that, it would’ve been reprehensible because he was the only truly innocent person who ever lived.
Do you mean ultimate badass Talenel’Elin , Herald of War?
He. Did. Not. Break.
First thought!
Username checks out. Lol.
I’ll take a different approach here. Evolution does not care about your feelings.
If a species is unwilling to self-sacrifice for the greater good, and it comes up against an event that cannot be solved with selfishness, it goes extinct. Like in this scenario.
But evolution is a motherfucker, and evolution does not care about your feelings, the only thing that matters to evolution is reproductive success. So some people are going to be altruistic because that’s better for the species because it makes it more survivable.
I’m not saying it’s right, I’m not saying it’s wrong, but the species that’s going to survive is the one that’s willing to self sacrifice for the greater good of the species. To increase reproductive success. And that’s what’s going to be left in the universe. Because evolution does not care. You either get with the program or you get out of the gene pool no other option
Evolution is not a good base for morals. We tried it out - was really bad.
Now hold on. How can we be certain? Maybe holocaust 2: electric boogaloo we be better
I’m in Germany, so not sure if allowed to answer.
Sure you can! Say it with me: “Eugenics and genocide aren’t a fast track to an improved gene pool. Holocaust 2 is bad news bears.”
Dang, I’m already marching on the street with a burning torch.
Evolution works, we exist.
Sure, but is a bad basis for morals. Like I said - social Darwinism is dodgy at best.
Evolutionary biology is definitely no basis for a system of morality. But I must say, as a biologist who studied evolution, that social Darwinism is not based either on evolutionary theory or empirical evidence. The idea that evolution is driven solely by competitive ability is pseudoscience, and works neither in human nor animal populations.
I wrote it further down, ist based on very basic understanding of evolution (happen to have studied biology myself) and sure, like any other moral system it’s not based on any empirical evidence.
You know Darwin himself was against the idea. He argued that our ability to look after one another was one of the most vital parts of being human and we can’t save humanity by giving up our humanity.
How did you manage to interpret my comment in a way that I support social Darwinism?
Oh agreed! 100%!! Evolution has no morality baked into it just efficaciousness.
So using evolution to reason moral questions is not the best way to go.
It may not be the happiest way to go but I think it’s the only self-consistent way to go.
As an individual I totally believe in making the world a better place, do unto others as that you would have them do unto you, all of that. But in the scenario where the world’s going to end unless one dude sacrifices themselves, I would say basic instinct kicks in. The tribe must survive!
I hope you just pretend that you don’t know what social Darwinism is and how applying it worked out in the end.
Evolution is a scientific concept, it is not an ideology.
No it’s not morally preferable. Fuck that world that requires human sacrifice.
Just out of interest, what if we make it a (not-human) animal instead of a human. Or, what if we make it trillions of animals every year. What about a world that doesn’t require it but still includes mass amounts of animal sacrifice unnecessarily? That’s the world we’re in right now 😂
Most peoples empathy differs from human to animal.
But it shouldn’t. Our empathy with other humans all boils down to knowing their ability to suffer. And science today agrees, that most animals are able to suffer and feel pain just like us. We really should include them into our circle of moral consideration and thankfully more and more people already do
Empathy is not rational. It’s more based on ability to relate to others experience. We are more empathic to people closer in our life and to people who made similar experiences as we. The same goes for animals, we have much more empathy towards pets and animals we perceive as intelligent. But it would be nice if we expanded our empathy - but first it need to include all humans and even that is quite the large asking.
I mean the “first world” is built entirely on the sacrifices of the rest of the world. People live in unimaginably horrible conditions so that we can consume and be free.
I agree. It would be practical and coldhearted, not moral.
It’s also a fake question because there is no situation where torturing someone makes the world a better place.
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Someone’s been looking too much into Procedure Montauk 110
Prepare for the
Metamemeticthreat to be quarantined and for this whole infection vector to be [REDACTED]
Is that person Rupert Murdoch? Then yes
Haha, innocent. He doesn’t really fit the description.
Shit you’re right
I’m still fine with sacrificing him. Volcano, vultures, doesn’t really matter. Some kicks to the balls won’t do harm as well. He needs to be removed from society.
I think it has happened numerous times already under the same pretense.
I am not sure if we are saved or not.
Unfair to ask the question in the incomplete form… The tortured person is you. Now answer
Nope. That’s a world that’s not worth saving.
Is it really though? Injustices happen all the time here. I want to agree with you but I’m struggling to come up with good justifications for it. Can you explain your thinking a little bit?
So everyone including the innocent just ends?
Because regardless of the choice. Innocent people will die.
It’s how quickly you want that to happen I think is what we’re going after.
Is this voluntary? Is it random? Is the person truly innocent? Is this person known or will be remembered? Is it a child? Is the world aware?
I have a ton of questions that lean onto the “slow” side of things.
But I think it’s too easy to say “nope, just end it”.
It’s a fumbly one, eh?
I agree that in an existence with that decision on the line, we would have to question many things.
Does someone innocent have to die, or is someone lying about the rules of the decision to save themselves? Would people who expect to kill this person be willing to offer same thing themselves? If not, why can they really decide for someone else? Is the death actually necessary, and how? Will new religions form from this?
What happens if it fails? Will that person just be dead for no reason? Will their loved ones be cared for? Who would even qualify?
Is this voluntary? Is it random? Is the person truly innocent? Is this person known or will be remembered? Is it a child? Is the world aware?
I just picture Cabin in the Woods.
Great movie, BTW. What a concept!
Which side did you fall onto, the people keeping the evil at bay, or the ones fighting to live even if it meant the end of the world?
I fell on the side of fighting to live and Marty was the best.
Are you trying to make an arguement for Christianity?
In practice we all know what we would do. Given that morality is at best invented and aspirational that is the moral action. Or at least we think that it is.
“healthy unemployment rate”
