• goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Your vote for Dems is what endangers the vulnerable like those in poverty. You consent to wealth and income inequality with your vote, and can only blame yourself for not improving your country.

      • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Actual progress towards changing the Democratic party instead of consenting to it’s right wing policies that are enabled by your vote.

        • tacosanonymous@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          I did that in 2016 and it didn’t progress shit. It made it worse like it will if we do that this year. I organized and pushed leftists in primaries and I was beaten by “moderates.” Specifically, nobody had a chance against the incumbent. It fucking sucks but I don’t want a declared fascist putting more assholes on judicial benches or pushing anti-trans, anti-women policies.

          I’m with you on both parties sucking. But please, grow up. If you want to help, do it before the nominees are set. And don’t drag others into your misguided principles.

          • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            I did that in 2016 and it didn’t progress shit.

            Did your lazy ass do anything else?

            If you want to help, do it before the nominees are set.

            Jill Stein is a good candidate in a historically weak election for the ruling class.

            I’ve gotten dozens of people to vote Green in my state, what have you done?

            • tacosanonymous@lemm.ee
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              7 months ago

              “There are dozens of us.” lol

              wtf have I done? I already said. Organized and gotten people elected to school boards, city council, and our mayor too. We primaried for state and federal elections but didn’t get our candidates. We didn’t pout and waste our votes on people who had no chance of getting elected. We sucked it the fuck up and tried to make sure Republicans didn’t get elected.

              • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                I’ve been looking through your comments and have confirmed you are a fake. Where can I see any evidence of your “efforts” to help the Green party?

              • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                I don’t believe you at all. Any person informed enough to do what you said knows voting for Democrats only makes out situation worse by consenting to neoliberal capitalism. None of the hundreds of people affiliated with the Green party I’ve met have said that, so you’re lying.

                • mozz@mbin.grits.devOP
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                  7 months ago

                  voting for Democrats only makes out situation worse

                  Tell me you’re not a pregnant woman who needs obstetric care of any kind or a capitol policeman or trans or Hispanic or a person who’s trying to get sick days from their union or a Ukrainian

                  by consenting to neoliberal capitalism

                  Yes, everyone knows that simply not consenting to the system suddenly makes it go away. Just ask anyone who’s ever been on a traffic stop – you just have to tell the policeman you do not consent, and all of a sudden, everything changes, and it works out better that you didn’t go along with the system.

                  If only the civil rights movement had been privy to this knowledge, they could have done their decades of work to make the system better much more simply and easily

                  • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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                    7 months ago

                    Tell me you’re not a pregnant woman who needs obstetric care of any kind or a capitol policeman or trans or Hispanic or a person who’s trying to get sick days from their union or a Ukrainian

                    Dems can’t fix that or they won’t be able to run on it anymore. They have plenty of opportunities especially the super majority under Obama.

                    Yes, everyone knows that simply not consenting to the system suddenly makes it go away.

                    Never made that argument, bad gaslighting attempt. Green part hits even 5% and Dems start doing what you want.

                    If only the civil rights movement had been privy to this knowledge

                    This actually goes against your argument, civil violence was the only reason anything happened for that movement, and you’re advocating for voting for Dems and not getting in the streets.

            • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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              7 months ago
              1. It hasn’t though. Dems aren’t Communists, but they’ve moved slowly toward the left over decades.

              2. Even if strategy A is a total failure, that’s no indication that strategy B will succeed just because it isn’t strategy A. That’s a ridiculous conclusion. It’s like saying “Bloodletting didn’t cure my cancer, therefore healing crystals will!”.

              • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                they’ve moved slowly toward the left over decades.

                Absolutely false. Dems have moved to the right for decades since Clinton’s attacks on the working class with NAFTA. Obama called himself a moderate republican and governed like it. Read “Listen, Liberal” by Thomas Frank for a detailed description of this.

                Even if strategy A is a total failure, that’s no indication that strategy B will succeed just because it isn’t strategy A

                Then try it and see, that’s how it works. Instead you want to consent to the Democratic party’s right wing policies without getting any concession for your vote. ___

                • mozz@mbin.grits.devOP
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                  7 months ago

                  Dems have moved to the right for decades since Clinton’s attacks on the working class with NAFTA. Obama called himself a moderate republican and governed like it.

                  So your assertion is that the arc Clinton -> Obama -> Biden represents an increasing rightward shift in the party, is it?

                  Do you know what would have happened to a self-described socialist who tried to get the nomination in 1996, or a Palestinian congresswoman who talked about “From the river to the sea” in 2008?

                  Read “Listen, Liberal” by Thomas Frank for a detailed description of this.

                  I genuinely started looking for this, because I was curious what it had to say, but then I reread how you summarized it and concluded I probably don’t need to.

                  • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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                    7 months ago

                    So your assertion is that the arc Clinton -> Obama -> Biden represents an increasing rightward shift in the party, is it?

                    That is factual. Income and wealth inequality and all legislation allowing it proves me right.

                    Do you know what would have happened to a self-described socialist who tried to get the nomination in 1996, or a Palestinian congresswoman who talked about “From the river to the sea” in 2008?

                    Do you know what would happen to Biden if he went back in time and ran in the 1930’s? The workers would riot.

                    I genuinely started looking for this, because I was curious what it had to say, but then I reread how you summarized it and concluded I probably don’t need to.

                    It is a book written by a liberal like you who actually researched the Democratic party abandoning workers. You refuse to read it because it would hurt your feelings to know you’re wrong.

                • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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                  7 months ago

                  Yeah, we tried that, in 2016. We saw: Trump won, stacked the courts, dismantled public services, rolled back taxes on billionaires and shifted the tax burden onto the working class, dismantled pandemic watchdog labs which directly lead to the pandemic, and that’s just scratching the surface. How did Dems respond? Biden.

                  We tried it, we saw, it was an abject failure that played right into the hands of the far right. You’re either politically illiterate, or a bad faith actor trying to make the country mask-off fascist by splitting the left

                  • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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                    7 months ago

                    Yeah, we tried that, in 2016.

                    False. The Libertarians got over 3x the votes of the Greens. We didn’t try anything lol https://www.fec.gov/resources/cms-content/documents/federalelections2016.pdf

                    We tried it, we saw, it was an abject failure that played right into the hands of the far right. You’re either politically illiterate, or a bad faith actor trying to make the country mask-off fascist by splitting the left

                    No, we didn’t. A pathetic attempt to vote for Bernie in primaries and then have him tell everyone to vote Clinton is not trying. Had he told us to vote for Greens it would be different. You’re coping so hard to support Dems.

                    Your strategy has consistently failed. You’re too stupid to realize that or you are working for the Dems.

        • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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          7 months ago

          Project 2025, stupid. Letting Trump win means no progressive wins again in this country. Anti progress.

          • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Letting Trump Biden win means no progressive wins again in this country.

            Imagine thinking you’re defending democracy by voting for someone you don’t want. LOL

            • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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              7 months ago

              Wow, you can type the opposite thing that someone said and pretend that you have a point. How incredibly stupid of you.

              What exactly is Biden’s plan to avoid letting a progressive win in the country ever again? Because Trump is the one with Project 2025.

                  • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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                    7 months ago

                    My interest is growing the Green party so it is in my interests to vote for her, and convince others to do the same so Dems will feel threatened enough to help poor people.

                • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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                  7 months ago

                  Hey wait a second that link only details democrats’ plans to beat 3rd party candidates in this election, not a plan to instill actual literal fascism, gutting environmental regulations, and ensuring that no one can reimpose those regulations for as long as this country remains this country

                  Did you even read the link you sent?

                  • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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                    7 months ago

                    Hey wait a second that link only details democrats’ plans to beat 3rd party candidates in this election, keep third parties off the ballot because they are anti-democratic

    • brbposting@sh.itjust.works
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      7 months ago

      You’re not a “raging leftist” if you vote for Biden. At least vote PSL or Green use a brutal domestic terrorism campaign as leverage to blackmail politicians into overturning first-past-the-post as part of a multi-prong strategy that, even as extreme as you are, still includes a pragmatic hedge in the form of a vote for the lesser of two evils

      Of course nobody should be terrorizing anyone. What I’m riffing off of is a perspective someone shared that basically you don’t protest with a vote for a loser, you protest by agitating for systemic change.

      In the meantime while the broken system is in place, you feed it a minimally shitty input.

      • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        use a brutal domestic terrorism campaign

        The fuck? Just vote for third parties where did you get that bullshit from?

        In the meantime while the broken system is in place, you feed it a minimally shitty input.

        You consent to this system with a vote for Dems.

        • brbposting@sh.itjust.works
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          7 months ago

          Reasonable people can definitely disagree on this.

          One thing that may be interesting to think about: some percentage of the time an argument is made disingenuously to try to siphon off votes. An entirely genuine recommendation of an identical strategy is fair – as I said reasonable people can disagree – but perhaps calls for some introspection.

          It’s too bad when your strategy mirrors that of your worst enemy! So the far leftist could perhaps instead chain himself to legislators’ doors (vehement objection to the system) while consenting to acknowledge reality with a disgusted harm reduction vote for the marginally less-bad elderly man.

      • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Do you think being incredibly stupid is a prereq for being a raging leftist or something?

        It is a prereq for voting for Biden

            • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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              7 months ago

              The best available choice isn’t always one that you want to make. It’s fine to hate the idea of voting strategically, I hate it too, but it’s naive to think you can positively affect the system by going with the option you want the most.

              • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Voting for someone you disagree with is not voting strategically, it’s voting against your interests based on what you assume others will do.

                • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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                  7 months ago

                  No, we can say with absolute certainty that (barring any issues with mortality) either Trump or Biden will win this year. I assume others will vote for those two for the same reason I assume that the sun will rise tomorrow.

                  ETA: I was right about the sunrise. Check back in a few months to find out if I was right about the president!

                  • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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                    7 months ago

                    And in 2028?

                    Your lazy ass will be making the same argument. I will actually express democracy unlike you, and will work to gather votes for the Greens.