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- cross-posted to:
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For at least ten years, the Chinese Communist Party has been abducting its overseas citizens on EU territory and forcibly returning them to China - violating the rule of law and public security in Europe - a new report finds.
Full report: https://safeguarddefenders.com/sites/default/files/pdf/Chasing Fox Hunt.pdf
Archived version: https://archive.ph/lEYCn
EDIT: The discussion shifted to off-topic and insults. Post locked.
I will be the first one to accuse US of being a hypocrite criminal state, but this whole mentality of excusing China’s abhorrent behavior because someone else is worse is just as bad as ignoring US crimes.
What is abhorrent here? The article you linked to has the report’s author saying that telling a citizen to return = kidnapping. It’s trumped-up bullshit.
If I first threaten your family member if you don’t do exactly as I say, it is not a simple request to return home. There is a legal process for that called extradition.
What you’re describing is not kidnapping. The article implies China is threatening family members, but it provides no examples, and I have no reason to trust people who deliberately mischaracterize the facts.
If China, for example, was arresting family members of people for no other reason besides being related to a citizen China wants to return home, the authors would probably have just said that.
The report provides more details, I attached the link to the full report in the post.
If you want to make a convincing argument then post the relevant bit of information from the report or it just sounds like you’re handwaving
Abducting someone is only “abhorrent” without the context. It’s only bad if you assume they don’t have a good reason for it. And you can only assume they don’t have a good reason for it if you buy into the propaganda that the Chinese government is some entity made of pure evil.
Maybe these folks were past their visa, or were being extradited for some crime. Who knows. There are lots of super valid reasons for an embassy to “abduct” someone. World governments do that kind of shit all of the time for totally normal reasons. And yet where’s the article about “German Embassy KIDNAPS man who was staying in the US on an expired visa.” They don’t exist because people naturally assume that white governments have a good reason for doing something and non white governments don’t. It just racism plain and simple.
Sure maybe the Chinese government is just going around risking international incidents because some random dude is doing thought crime. Or maybe they’re just getting them out of the country because they’re not supposed to be there anymore. One of those is significantly more likely than the other.
Indeed, plenty of other countries extradite people, with the permissions of the other government. The difference here is China not only didn’t have the permission, but they didn’t even ask for it. So you can call it propaganda, while reasonable people will call it kidnapping under the existing law.
I looked for the article related to “German Embassy KIDNAPS man who was staying in the US on an expired visa” and couldn’t find it. Could you provide the link for it?
That’s my point, said article doesn’t exist, because mundane shit like “embassy does its job” is only “news” when “non white bad people country does things.” It’s only news when it feeds the racist propaganda machine.
So why does other non-racist countries doesn’t cover it if it’s happening. Countries that oppose US on stuff like their double standards, war crimes and other hypocrisies release plenty of articles on those topics. But by your own statement, there are 0 articles about this.
I’m not one of those people that will say US good, China bad without looking at the context and judging it on its own merit, but you are not helping your case here. I need some objective details of what you are claiming to be true.
They probably are. They probably aren’t covering them in English though, it’s not for English speaking audiences. China, as an example, has very publicly chastised the US for its countless human rights violations over the years. Many non-Western countries have.
You’re talking about my case here, but your case basically boils down to “I don’t see countries reporting on Western crimes in English, so it must not be happening” which…is certainly an argument you could make. Western countries have a horrible track record of reporting on their own crimes, and non Western countries probably aren’t writing lots of English articles for English speaking audiences because that isn’t who their readership is. I guess if you’re fluent in some other languages and spend a lot of time reading non Western media in non-English languages then you’d have a stronger argument here. I kinda doubt that though. And I bet if I did start pulling out less Western media sources that do report in English like Al Jazeera or RT I would be immediately called out for parroting anti-Western propaganda. It’s a real catch 22.
My argument is “Western governments fund propaganda efforts against their perceived competition, so stop parroting it as if it’s objective fact.” They don’t even hide that they’re doing it, it’s not like this is some nutter conspiracy theory. There is plenty to be critical of China for, but “Chinese Embassy Doing Embassy Things” isn’t one of them and only serves to fuel anti Asian racism and propaganda.
China should make a Radio Free Garden or something to broadcast real news into the west.
Like I said, US is a perfect example of hypocrisy, but their hypocrisy doesn’t automatically absolve China of its own actions. I don’t justify US, it’s you who are trying to justify China’s actions.
I welcome any non-English source. Though if it’s never posted in English, it kind of defeats the purpose of exposing English-speaking countries bad behavior.
I don’t care about the source, I care about the content. There are plenty of bad articles by reputable sources, and there are plenty of good articles by garbage sources.
And all countries release propaganda. Literally all of them, it’s their job. The core issue here is that Western propaganda is mostly influenced by corporations, since governments doesn’t directly control the media. While in Asia, the government mostly owns the media. That doesn’t automatically make it everything they release bad, but when they disallow negative coverage, it creates a negative impression. And there are plenty of independent media organizations that report on their own countries crimes in the west. Their influence stops at corporate media. While in contrast, there are no independent media organizations that report on Asia’s crimes.
Embassy’s authority only extends to their embassy grounds. The moment, they step outside, they are subject to the countries laws, where forcibly moving a person against their will is illegal. If there is a legal justification for it, it has to go through those countries legal system.
“the fact that you can’t find evidence for my point totally proves my point!”
His point was that if the UK contacts a criminal living in a foreign country and tells them that they should return home and get things sorted amicably because the alternative of being registered as an international fugitive is worse then no one is going to say ‘they probably threatened to torture their family!’ they say ‘well that’s a sensible thing for them to do, better for the person and cheaper for the country…’
This is a thing the British Embassy do, it’s a thing the Chinese embassy do - yet only one of them is seen as inhuman monsters despite the other having a far bigger history of inhumane acts and breaking laws in other countries - its funny James Bond when we do it, evil incarnate when they do.
“The absence of evidence is all the evidence I need!” /s
Your reading comprehension remains sorely lacking. The whole point is that it’s not newsworthy, but you can still collect information on it happening by looking up extradition statistics or w/e
Wow 4 hexbear upvotes and one from .ml, you guys are so busy with apologising for Chinese and Russian authoritarianism lately, I don’t know how you get anything else done. It’s not racist to point out that shit like this isn’t ok. You can pretend it’s not happening all you like, nobody is fooled.
Yes but it is racist to assume that it’s happening because you just feel in your bones that china bad.
This is why we have to actually establish beyond ‘yeah but that’s the sort of thing they do’ that it’s actually something bad happening, which is the point of the conversation
‘Anyone that doesn’t automatically assume everything bad about China is true must be evil’ is not a good argument
It’s pointless debating with hexbear trolls. And it’s equally bad to stick your head in the sand and just deny that China is a highly authoritarian state. Tankies will never allow anyone to criticise their “best model for society” unchallenged, even when it’s entirely justified. Why is it aok for them to criticise everything Western countries do in rabid terms but the minute China or Russia does something shitty, it’s suddenly racist? Because hexbear, that’s why. It’s their whole MO. Dogpile the comments, get everyone worked up, and they’ve had their fun and will move on. It’s classic tankie authoritarianism, hiding behind virtue signalling. If you can’t see they are just “dunking on the libs” as per usual, I don’t know what to say to you.
deleted by creator
Go back to reddit
Are you really implying clandestine abduction is an acceptable method to deal with an overstayed visa?
But there has been no evidence of that, the article isn’t even claiming that really they’re just using words that make you picture it when the reality they actually describe is people going back home voluntarily after a conversation with embassy officials