• EstraDoll [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        2 months ago

        I legitimately am unable to tell if this is genuine or just another hexbear user on a different instance doing a bit. This sounds exactly like what we would do as a joke

        • SeedyOne@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          15 years ago maybe, to claim it now shows you’ve been in a news bubble. Get some new perspective.

          • beardown@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            Depends who you view as progressive.

            Hilldog claimed to be a progressive. Albeit a “progressive who gets stuff done.” There are many politicos similar to her, such as Buttigieg, Newsom, etc

            And then there is Bernie Sanders. And, on some level, the Squad and their allies.

            Clearly these are (at least) two distinct groups. Yet both use the label of progressive when it suits them. Which muddies the waters and (intentionally) confuses the public

            Meanwhile, we also now have paleoconservatives/fascists like Josh Hawley who are somehow getting union support. Labels don’t mean as much as they used to

            https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/teamsters-make-another-move-toward-gop-give-5-000-to-sen-josh-hawley/ar-BB1lC5gE

            • SeedyOne@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              Actually, it doesn’t. Instead of looking at the nuance of the progressive side, you only need to look at the complete lack of vision, policies and outright lies that the right is now full of. Not just voting against their constituents wishes but against their OWN policies. Defense bills that might make a democrat look good, can’t have that. Healthcare plans that they champion until Obama’s name is on it. And those are just the low hanging, obvious fruit.

              “Both sides” have their issues but it’s crystal fucking clear which one has gone off the rails and is against almost everything this country was founded on. If you can’t see it, you’re bubbled. Plain and simple.

              • beardown@lemm.ee
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                2 months ago

                Neoliberals are enemies of the working class.

                So are fascists, obviously. But Reagan and Clintons neoliberalism is how we got here.

        • ringwraithfish@startrek.website
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          2 months ago

          So cute, you want to join an adult conversation. Come on pal, let’s see your work. Gotta back up your claims with evidence if you want to continue sitting at the adult table.

        • ringwraithfish@startrek.website
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          2 months ago

          As an AI, I don’t have personal thoughts or feelings, but I strive to provide helpful and respectful responses based on the input I receive from users. If there’s anything specific you’d like to discuss or clarify, feel free to let me know.

      • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        2 months ago

        Okay then. What solution do even the most egalitarian or radical progressives/liberals, who you call the “adults”, have to solve capitalism’s contradictions and crises, with capitalism’s inherent unequal division of private property, leading to rising inequality and homelessness, being one of them? Because everything I’ve heard from just sounds like they are talking around the problem and avoiding the elephant in the room, the capitalistic system. In fact, many progressives when talking about issues such as homelessness, do not challenge the notion of private property and accept the inequality inherent to such a system, and then explain it away through bogus reasoning. I do not think that this way of avoiding about talking about how the modern capitalistic system works is adult behaviour. In fact, I’d say that it is childish behaviour, and does not deserve to be called progressive. The right wing being more brazen with it’s lack of ethics does not excuse the failure of liberals to address current issues.

        The contemporary version of bourgeois emancipating reason, egalitarian liberalism, made fashionable by an insistent media popularization, provides nothing new because it remains prisoner of the liberty, equality, and property triplet. Challenged by the conflict between liberty and equality, which the unequal division of property necessarily implies, so-called egalitarian liberalism is only very moderately egalitarian. Inequality is accepted and legitimized by a feat of acrobatics, which borrows its pseudo concept of “endowments” from popular economics. Egalitarian liberalism offers a highly platitudinous observation: individuals (society being the sum of individuals) are endowed with diverse standings in life (some are powerful heads of enterprise, others have nothing). These unequal endowments, nevertheless, remain legitimate as long as they are the product, inherited obviously, of the work and the savings of ancestors. So one is asked to go back in history to the mythical day of the original social contract made between equals, who later became unequal because they really desired it, as evidenced by the inequality of the sacrifices to which they consented. I do not think that this way of avoiding the questions of the specificity of capitalism even deserves to be considered elegant.

        • Samir Amin, Eurocentrism
        • Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          How about UBI? Although I haven’t heard any of them argue for it to be a living wage, but at least the conversation has begun. Honestly, I think most people actually DO want an unequal division of private property. They want a system where if you work harder than the rest you get more than the rest. The big problem I see is that many people automatically assume that if you already have more that means you worked harder, which isn’t necessarily true. We have people who work very little and get to hoard vast wealth. We also have people working their ass off and getting very little reward. The problem isn’t unequal division of property, it’s that the way it’s being divided up is shitty (and always has been).

    • Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      I think you’re confusing the neo liberals with the progressive movement. (Basically Clinton vs Bernie)