• Franklin@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Unfortunately, if you view a vote as being complicit you’re complicit no matter what.

    Because with the two party bias there are only two people capable of being in that office and not voting for either of them is still a vote in and of itself.

    To be clear I don’t care who you vote for but you need to accept the reality that you are choosing one of the two whether you mean to or not.

    That’s why Congress is the only realistic way we can pressure our political system to stop what’s currently going on. The government doesn’t stop at the president and plenty of our Congress supports it too which is what allows it to be the way it is.

      • Franklin@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Then you’ve failed to grasp the implicit bias that is baked into our political system.

        I’m not saying it’s right we should absolutely be trying to change that. However it’s the truth.

        Until we get something like ranked choice voting we are stuck voting for the best of two or giving power to the worse.

        • natural_motions@lemmynsfw.com
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          2 months ago

          Until we get something like ranked choice voting we are stuck voting for the best of two or giving power to the worse.

          Or not voting for either to communicate a message.

          • Franklin@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Yeah you absolutely can but that will whether you intend to or not give power to the other party. Which if your goal is to assuage your moral complicitency then I think you need to rethink your end result.

            • natural_motions@lemmynsfw.com
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              2 months ago

              The end result is not concerned solely with this coming election cycle. The lesser of two evils strategy is an undeniable failure, propping up lunatic opponents to make right-wing Dems more palatable is a failure, it has led us to the brink of fascism. At no point has the “tide begun to turn” because people went along with neoliberal strategy. The only chance at stopping that momentum is reforming Democratic politics, that cannot occur if Dems face no electoral consequences for the very worst fascist behavior.

              A vote for Biden is a vote for the direction this country has been going for 40 years, it’s a concession to the right-wing of the democratic party. You are simply in a privleged enough position to not have been effected by it yet so you are looking to your own immediate self-interest and chastising others for not helping you preserve your bubble.

              • Franklin@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                No I am very affected by it, please do not assume. I have never chastised you. Every single time I have talked kindly and merely pointed out some moral fallacies in your argument.

                Unfortunately not voting for them doesn’t teach them anything we learned that in 2016, the DNC still holds most of the same positions, abstaining just does not work with the current voting structure.

                The only thing we got in return was 4 years of environmental deregulation, deregulation of employment protections, deregulation of election protections and so much more.

                We are at a pivotal point in our planet’s history where if we don’t stop the excess carbon being put in the atmosphere there won’t be anyone left to save. I know Biden hasn’t taken as much action on this as everyone would like but he’s taking a heck of a lot more than Trump ever will.

                So even if your long-term goal was achieved by putting pressure here and not voting which I’m can assure you given past circumstance it won’t, the irreparable damage to the planet and our country can’t simply be undone if your goal is achieved.

                However Congress is not in such a lofty position and much easier to pressure so I urge you to pressure them instead. As they have the means to make an actual difference.

                • natural_motions@lemmynsfw.com
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                  2 months ago

                  I don’t think someone telling me to actively put my stamp of approval on a genocide can lecture about moral fallacies. That’s simply not a position you can take.

                  In any case, you’re trying to convince the wrong person, I don’t have the power to change what Biden is doing. You need to be finding ways to make your case to him and your representatives about their choice not to pressure him.

                  He has time to take action before November, he’s aware of the conditions people have placed on their votes. He seems convinced that the votes of people like you will carry him. If you don’t want him playing chicken with ypur rights it’s up to you to make that clear.

                  • Franklin@lemmy.world
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                    2 months ago

                    Voting is not a stamp of approval I’ve established that pretty strongly with evidence and theory. It can never be a stamp approval as long as the current system for voting is in place.

                    You do have a moral fallacy you say that you’re complicit if you vote for someone who is immoral. To extend this logic you’re also complicit in every other evil that could have been prevented. I don’t think we need a replay of 2016 to establish that a republican victory will do more harm both short and long-term.

                    I’m not saying you shouldn’t pressure him I’m saying you can’t. Your methods will not work, never will. Because the voting system we have in place does not allow lack of votes to pressure, only votes pressure. It’s why millennials get so little of what they want because they don’t vote like older generations do.

                    So why is pressuring Congress the one piece of action you actually have left so out of the question?

            • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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              2 months ago

              He needs to rethink his end result? What about your end result, the thing that we’re currently experiencing? You’re trying to twist people’s arm into keeping the machine going even though that machine has been failing us for the last 50 years, yet somehow you think this time it’s going to make a difference.

              • Franklin@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Could you please be a little more polite I’m still a human being. I understand it’s an emotional topic but I’ve remained cordial.

                I think my prior responses outline pretty thoroughly why I think it will achieve a worse end result. I also understand that it may not be their intent however I don’t think that really matters.

    • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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      2 months ago

      there are only two people capable of being in that office

      No, anyone eligible is capable of holding that office. The reason why it’s typically only a member of one of two parties is because of people like you to continue to give them your vote and pressure others to do the same.

      • Franklin@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I wish you all the luck in the world but I can tell you now that it is not me acknowledging the fact that our system has an inherent two party bias that assured the last 50 years of one of the two parties.

        • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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          2 months ago

          How can you argue that it’s impossible for anyone outside the Republican or Democratic party to hold office while also arguing that’s it’s imperative we vote for one of them? Both can’t be true and if you really believe that it’s impossible to affect things, I see no reason why you should feel the need to be arguing with us at all.