- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
He wrote that the justifications for Israel’s war in Gaza became “difficult to defend” and that “whatever the justification you’re either advancing a policy that enables the mass starvation of children, or you’re not.” The post received an outpouring of support with hundreds of likes and comments in just a few hours. …
In his letter, Mann also says that he’s the descendant of European Jews and “was raised in a particularly unforgiving moral environment.”
“When it came to the topic of bearing responsibility for ethnic cleansing — my grandfather refused to ever purchase products manufactured in Germany — where the paramount importance of ‘never again’ and the inadequacy of ‘just following orders’ were oft repeated. I’m haunted by the knowledge that I failed those principles,” Mann wrote.
Mann went on to say that he held off sharing the reason for his resignation because he was afraid of violating professional norms and disappointing officers that he respects.
You must log in or register to comment.
A real good Mann.
If only the rest of the military would Mann-up like this.
There’s a great TF2 joke in here but I don’t want to overshadow his actions
Removed by mod
Mann himself stated his reasons include being a ‘descendant of European Jews’. I admire his moral conviction. For some people ‘never again’ are life/history/moral lessons learned, rather than mere slogans to be printed on stickers.
All this death and destruction helped along by US tax dollars, and US munitions.
I was not surprised Hillary ‘corporate’ Clinton came out full on pro-death-and-destruction, pointedly criticizing student protesters. It’s decades of failed blank check US foreign policy towards Israel playing out now.
One of the most surprising and dissapointing side effects of all this is how it showed that the German political and media elites had learned the “never again” lesson in a way that preserved and in some ways extended their racist way of thinking - “Never again shall Germany do that to Jews” - hence the unwavering support for Israel even when its ultra-nationalist etnostate extreme racist politics reached their natural conclusion in the form of an outright Genocide (rather than merelly Apartheid with some low-key murdering and land theft)
This man, on the other hand, learned the “never again” lesson as a true Humanist (and the naive amongst us expected this lesson to have being learned by any good person) - “Never again shall this happen to any people”.
Such a Humanist that he even sacrificed his own career deserves the most respect we can give, whilst the extreme racists who once again are supporting the Fascists of a favoured race when they’re commiting Genocide, should go down in History in infamy just like their ancestors.
This man is part Jewish. It’s not a rare experience for such to be lectured morals on legacy of Holocaust by those who are not. Especially in cases where the state of Israel kills somebody, or someone else wants to use that “they are literal Nazis” political argument.
Actually if you complain about such insults to your dead, quite a lot of people around will be outraged. At the same time they’ll easily say stupid shit like “for Baltic countries Soviets were worse than Nazis” or something along those lines, when they think you aren’t present.
Two things
- If you look at how the accusation of antisemitism is invariably used to excuse the actions of Israel, it’s far too often a case of non-Jews telling actual Jews what Jewishness is supposed to be like, sometimes even de facto calling said Jews antisemite (or, other words, “Bad Jews”). If as non-member of a community one is telling members of that community what their community’s values are supposed to be, then it’s probably time for that person to stop and do a little instrospection and hard thinking about their own posture.
- Being a Jew or part-Jew is not the same as knowing what the Holocaust and Nazism was in all their dimensions and implications and it certainly doesn’t make one a Genocide specialist. Hearing the stories, especially from somebody with an early XX century set of morals or second or third hand is not the same as understanding it in depth, especially with XXI century values - otherwise there would be no needs of History as a Science discipline - even if it feels almost like you were part of it: do not confuse stories of the stories about what happenned with fully understanding what happenned - even people who were in or saw mere accidents or crimes rarelly fully know what happenned: just go read about how humans are far from perfect witnesses, much less 2 or more levels removed from actual witnesses in such a grandiose (not in a good way) event. That’s not an etnicity thing, it’s just human. That said, I can understand how it would feel insulting for somebody whose family was directly hurt by it to hear people whose family were not, casually use those things as references or even preach their moral take on them - kind of like watching somebody piss on one’s ancestors’ graves. That said, for Jews whose family was not affected by those things to do Holocaust-interpretation or Moralizing should also feel equally or almost equally disgusting for those whose family suffered from it - it’s still those who did not suffer preaching to those who did.
Anyway, my original point is that his was a Humanist behaviour, something that transcends etnicity, even if added to that was also the feeling that people were pissing on the graves of his ancestors due to his actual ancestry. I don’t think it’s necessarily the product of superior knowledge, more of being the kind of person we all should aim to be and a superior awareness of such evilness due to how his own family was affected by something similar.
Trump did that exact thing in a recent speech (I don’t watch him but I saw the video clip in a recent Daily Show episode). IIRC, he even literally called Jews who don’t support Israel “bad Jews” and ones who do “good Jews”. And he’s not even Jewish!
Shit!
It seems Trump has already transcended the regular Fascist stereotype and is now aiming at the Nazi one.
You are not contradicting me.
Being Jewish for this matter is important as 1) motivation to learn how it really was, 2) being a part of that group and thus subject for that “you are a wrong Jew” thing.
It’s especially common for ethnic Germans to say #2, both because of #1 and of some reversal fallacy I guess (a reversal seems more fresh and somehow stronger and truer than the first thought on something, there’s a reason “subverting expectations” is such an overused thing in stories).
Anyway, my original point is that his was a Humanist behaviour, something that transcends etnicity
I’m sorry, but most people just don’t think like that. The common story with Turks finding out they have some Armenian roots is with them turning away from genocide denial immediately after that. Because first they were in one group and then the latter.
Ethnicity doesn’t matter, but identity does. If one is not autistic or very conscious of their actions.
and a superior awareness of such evilness due to how his own family was affected by something similar.
Which contradicts the part about ethnicity not mattering.
But yes, interpreting family history like this and not like “now a Jewish state has the right to kill anybody they want to and calling it evil is antisemitism” is something I would expect from a person to become an army officer for the right reasons.
I’m sorry, but most people just don’t think like that.
I too am sorry that most people don’t think like that :(
I would say that etnicity should not matter intelectually, but when it anchors one’s identity (which is not always the case, and not just for the autist or very conscious of their actions but also for those who grew up in a situation were their etnicity was treated as irrelevant) it definitelly matters to most at an emotional level and hence will inform some of their motivations.
That said, whilst I try to understand what motivates others and hence can understand how some people feel on account of their etnicity and thus act driven by those feelings, I will still try to judge them on their actions alone, not any less negativelly when they do “bad” things or any less positivelly when they do “good” ones (as in this case), even if their etnicity explains their feelings and hence motivations for those actions: plenty of people will for example at some point in their lives feel that they hate somebody and want them dead, but most people don’t actually go ahead and kill the other person and plenty of people will endure the feeling of being “one of the bad guys” and not put their careers on the block like this gentleman did.
but also for those who grew up in a situation were their etnicity was treated as irrelevant
I grew in Russia, so haven’t experienced such situations very often. It’s either a lot of chauvinism or don’t ask, don’t tell.
Still, people make identities out of fandoms, even out of fashion which comes and goes in a month.
He may not get a piece of paper that says ‘honorable’ on it, but that’s pretty damned honorable. Good man Mann
He’s a Major with 13 years of service so he has already completed his obligated term of service long ago. Unlike enlisted personnel officers are not on a strict contract and can request to resign their commission at any time after their initial obligation. He requested to resign his commission late last year and the Army accepted his resignation in January so he will be honorably discharged in June. He will miss out on the pension that kicks in after 20 years of service however.
I knew officers could resign whenever but wasn’t sure if they’d give him an Honorable under the circumstances, the green machine isn’t too fond of troops speaking up publicly about the bullshit.
He probably has an additional MSO because of some event in career. Certain schooling and assignments may incur an additional service obligation. The Army wants to avoid spending a lot of money on training its officers only to have them immediately drop their REFRAD paperwork.
He’ll get a general under honorable conditions at worst. To get other than honorable, he’d have to be court martialled iirc.
I’m haunted by the knowledge that I failed those principles,” Mann wrote.
He is no longer complicit in Genocide.
Obviously a filthy anti-Semite.
Per the legislation just approved by the US Congress’ that’s exactly what he legally is (well, minus the “filthy” parts: that’s only implicit).
PS: I’d like to remind everybody that in Nazi Germany what the Nazis did was legal.
I know it sarcasm, but dude is actually ethnically Jewish and used to brag back in college about his cousins in the IDF. Was VERY surprised to see his name connected with this years later.
It doesnt matter of hes Jewish or not. What matters is hes criticizing Israel, Which makes him a filthy anti-semite in a lot of peoples eyes. And he wouldnt be the first Jewish person labeled anti-smite since Israels recent push for extermination got underway.
The Israel Lobby has done a lot of work to equate criticism with the state of Israel, to Hatred of the jewish people and Antisemitism.
I’m all for this kind of symbolic gesture. I hope more follow his example until policymakers really feel the heat.
Good job cuz, you kept to your morals
deleted by creator
I’ll kill for oil, but there is no oil here. What is the purpose??
Yay! Making jokes about the name of a person who took a stand and put his money where his mouth is is fun!
I think you meant this in response to what is currently the top level top comment. And yeah it was kind of a lame joke, more so than inappropriate.
