Also, they had mayors and stuff, a VERY clear class division and were technically under the rule of Gondor after the Northern Kingdom fell but Gondor didn’t really have the resources or urge to do any ruling over there. Once Aragorn was in they were essentially an autonomous zone under military protection in exchange for maintaining the local roads and bridges.

  • GalaxyBrain [they/them]@hexbear.netOP
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    28
    ·
    6 months ago

    I’ve really gotta read that. I’m a giant Tolkien nerd and interact with some of well known Tolkien academics online and have added ‘Do normal spiders exist in middle earth or are they all descendants of Ungoliant?’ To the discussion with a degree of pot stirring. I’m also generally a pretty sympathetic to the orcs and have some criticism regarding elves.

    • combat_brandonism [they/them]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      ·
      6 months ago

      It’s a page-turner, but what no one ever says about it in the summaries is that it’s like a geo-political spy thriller set in middle earth after the books. It’s so good and not at all what I thought it’d be going in.

      while it says little directly on real-world politics

      fucking baby-brained summary I expect nothing less from natopedia

        • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          6 months ago

          I like how it turns some life into the Middle Earth because originals really portray it as the mostly uninhabited wilderness, and both the numbers of troops at Pellenor and the analytic works like Atlas of Middle-Earth support this initial feeling.

          I remember also one other Russian writer, Nick Perumov, wrote a trilogy placed in the 4th era, which present way less dreary and boring picture than official endings are suggesting. Worth the read.

    • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      edit-2
      6 months ago

      ‘Do normal spiders exist in middle earth or are they all descendants of Ungoliant?’

      I also once wondered about it so guess this isn’t such weird question if we came to it independently. Both the existence of Shelob and spiders in Hobbit seems to support it as clear hierararchy of decline of spiderkind, like other species in Tolkien universe also decline in time and generations. Maybe Tolkien just hated spiders, i do know that fragment in Hobbit is the hardest part to read for me out of entirety of his works.

    • Florn [they/them]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      6 months ago

      I was positive that regular spiders do exist and were servants of Vairë the Weaver, but I guess I was extrapolating from a line that refers to her weavings as “webs”.

      • GalaxyBrain [they/them]@hexbear.netOP
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        6 months ago

        The ‘spiders’ that descend from ungoliant can make webs. But shelob for example is said to have compound eyes, a thick hide (weird way to describe an exoskeleton) and a stinger on the thorax. Spiders don’t have these

        • Florn [they/them]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          6 months ago

          Shelob herself is only ever described as “most like” a spider.

          I guess it’s fair to say that because Middle Earth is a fictional time and place in our world that real spiders do exist, but that they don’t appear in canon

          • GalaxyBrain [they/them]@hexbear.netOP
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            6 months ago

            I’m guessing the intent is they gradually diminished into the lil guys we know and Tolkien just didn’t know much about bugs. Whether he was afraid of spiders was addressed by him in a letter, since both of his really popular books have giant spooky spiders. I guess he didn’t have any specific fear of spiders, he wasn’t a fan but wasn’t bothered by them. He just had a rough idea for the whole ungoliant thing, the broad strokes came into The Hobbit spiders and then Shelob kinda reconnected it to the greater mythology.