So I dipped my toe into Reddit for the first time in a while. (Relapses are always difficult things to deal with.)

On r/Psychiatry there’s a discussion running about Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria and there’s a really interesting spread of opinions. That sub is supposed to be exclusively for qualified psychiatrists, although it’s not very well moderated in that regard. Opinions ranged from being in favour, to fairly neutral, to extremely critical of the idea (and of ADHD itself [!!]).

This is what has prompted me to post this State of The Union Disorder Address today.

One thing that barely got any mention in the thread in question is the origins of the concept of, and I think even the term itself, Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (don’t quote me on that part - I could be misremembering). My introduction to the concept of RSD was through scrambling to get myself up to speed on ADHD and absorbing information from Dr Russel Barkley in particular and also Dr William Dodson, two of the leading experts in ADHD (although both of them are kinda old, with Dr Barkley being in retirement by this point). In older talks from both of them, they each outline the emotional dimension of ADHD that get overlooked by the diagnostic criteria and, tbh, the term ADHD itself which doesn’t recognise the emotional aspect. I think one day, eventually, we are going to see the label itself shift to recognise that it’s a disorder characterised by executive dysfunction and emotional dysregulation rather than hyperactivity (which is sometimes present but often not and sometimes wholly absent, especially as a person matures) and attention deficit (same as above - sometimes absent, sometimes present). Both of these parts of ADHD are, imo, manifestations of poor executive function and I’d argue that it’s a dysregulation of executive function moreso than anything - it’s extremely common for ADHDers to report experiencing hyperfocus but the problem is in the difficulty in regulation of that focus. This is not necessarily an example of executive dysfunction in the way that it’s commonly understood, although the ability to regulate one’s attention “appropriately” (however you want to define that exactly) does fit into the true definition of the term but I digress.

From memory, Dr Dodson referred to RSD by a different term. It seemed pretty obvious that he was working towards the same conclusion independently that Dr Barkley had also been working towards, and the concept didn’t even have a conventionally-accepted label at this point.

As ADHD, and especially adult ADHD, has come into more mainstream acceptance and awareness, there has been a huge amount of peer knowledge and support filling what is honestly a pretty wide chasm of knowledge and understanding of the condition. (I realise I’m part of that phenomenon.) In an ideal world this wouldn’t exist, but alas. This has led to what I think is some fundamental misconceptions about ADHD on both sides of the professional/lay person divide, and these definitely emerged in the discussion on the thread.

With regards to professionals, in my opinion, some major misconceptions are:

  • That ADHD is overdiagnosed

  • That it doesn’t exist (ugh)

  • That it is just the result of trauma (lookin’ at you Gabor Maté)

  • That it’s some trendy diagnosis or that it’s something that is used as a diversion from people averse to the diagnosis of BPD especially (this definitely came up in the thread)

  • That the emotional dysregulation dimension of ADHD doesn’t exist or that it’s is simply indicative of a co-occuring mental health condition

  • That RSD is just some tiktok trend that popped into existence out of nowhere

  • That RSD is just social anxiety or a trauma response, or something along these lines

On the other side, some of the misconceptions from lay people are:

  • The glamorising/quirkification of ADHD (no, staring out of the window at work or in class when you’re bored is not the same thing as ADHD and nor is impulse buying shit online)

  • That ADHD is just about dopamine/it’s just about a lack of dopamine (both are untrue)

  • That ADHD can be “cured”

  • That ADHD meds make you a zombie or that everyone responds to stimulants with better attention and so stimulants are just a crutch used by people who lack willpower or discipline

There’s probably a lot of other misconceptions on behalf of lay people but I’m not going to bore you with all of them - you’re probably aware of most of them already anyway.

One thing that stands out to me about all this is that ADHD, ironically, suffers from success - stimulant meds are the absolute envy of the rest of the psychopharmacological industry. (If an antidepressant had the rate of success that stimulant meds do for ADHD, it would be a defining moment in history akin to the advent of lithium in the treatment of bipolar.) What this means is that, for a long time, ADHD was diagnosed in mostly boys, and mostly the ones who exhibited a lot of hyperactivity, and the solution was to throw stimulants at the kid and move on because this would largely be seen to resolve the problem or the external and more disruptive aspects of it. Because of this, there’s a big gap in research into adult ADHD, the underdiagnosis of afabs, and examining what exists beneath the superficial, external observations of ADHD.

Hence where we find ourselves today and why I’m writing this post.

So where does this leave us?

Well, firstly I think there’s a lot of misunderstandings about RSD and incomplete understanding of RSD. (It’s gonna get a whole lot more anecdotal and extrapolation-y from here, so he warned.)

From what the good doctors above describe, it’s not really necessarily even rooted in rejection. The term RSD creates a fundamental misunderstanding that the experience is about feeling bad when people reject you or provide you with negative feedback whereas he experience itself is rooted in a very immediate, almost visceral emotional response to perceived mistakes and failures which is completely disproportionate to the situation. This can be something that occurs in a social setting, although not necessarily.

I think a good analogy of what it’s like to experience RSD is that it is a frequently occurring emotional response to things that are typically smaller and it feels like that one time in school when you suddenly got called to the principal’s office and you had no idea why. There’s this sudden, gut-wrenching emotional response where you feel like you’re in huge amounts of trouble for something and you don’t have any idea of what it is. (But then it turns out that, idk, they just wanted to congratulate you on winning some scholarship that you had forgotten about or they wanted to ask if you for some basic information.)

The difference between RSD and a trauma response or serious anxiety is that RSD is felt strongly in the body and it is completely disproportionate to the experience. An attack of anxiety typically has a solid basis in reality, and it is generally fairly quick to resolve when the perceived cause is addressed. Obviously for generalised anxiety disorder and more severe anxiety disorders, this is not necessarily the case but that’s its own discussion. Panic attacks often don’t have a particular triggering incident, RSD does.

Trauma responses are ones where your previous experience of a traumatic event is brought into your immediate experience due to some similarities or resemblance to it that occurs in the present - a car backfiring or a door slamming are two good examples. With regards to the difference between a trauma trigger and RSD, a trauma trigger is going to bring you right back to a past feeling when you were traumatised and your responses will be based in that past experience. RSD can fire off from something tiny and it isn’t something that dredges up an old traumatic experience for you while transporting you back to that moment in time and what you were thinking and how you were feeling back then.

RSD can kick off from really small things, like feeling as if you forgot to lock your front door this morning or maybe mispronouncing a word in conversation or arriving at an appointment at the right time but on the wrong day. A typical person might worry about their front door and go through the steps they took as they left the house this morning to arrive at the certainty that they did actually lock their door and then things feel okay again. A person with social anxiety might feel really nervous at that mispronunciation and it might really rattle them for quite a while or they might even freeze up or burst out into tears. Someone who finds out that they’ve arrived at their appointment on the wrong day might go beet red and feel extremely embarrassed. I’ve honestly done all of these things and experienced these responses before and RSD feels different.

RSD feels like a gut punch, and it often comes completely unexpectedly. I might often worry about forgetting to lock my door when I leave the house but today, inexplicably, today my response is different.

It’s that feeling when you realise you forgot to send the email and you lost the big contract but there’s nothing you can do because it’s already too late by this point, that feeling when you realise you left your purse on the bus and everything in it is gone forever, that feeling when you realise that your partner has been cheating on you and you’ve only just put all the pieces together.

Except it’s just some tiny little slip-up. Or maybe it’s not even a mistake at all but it feels like it might have been one.

As someone who has and is diagnosed with PTSD, RSD genuinely hits different. I have trauma triggers. I have trauma triggers for things that I’m not even aware of the historical source of because of extensive childhood trauma. But it’s taken me a really long time to realise that there’s this other, separate phenomenon that I experience which feels similar in a lot of ways and, for me, which had blurred into the “it’s just PTSD” narrative for the longest time, until I finally started developing my understanding that there was something else going on for me.

So anyway I hope that by rambling about the state of psychiatry, about being irritated by some shitty comments on Reddit (the horror!), and about my own experience of RSD along with the historical roots of the concept I’m helping to fill that gap in understanding and to push back against some of the misconceptions that exist surrounding RSD.

  • ReadFanon [any, any]@hexbear.netOP
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    5 months ago

    In classic me-style, I completely forgot about one aspect of RSD that I wanted to talk about lol.

    This is an addendum and it’s all pure speculation so take it with a heaping pinch of salt but I think that RSD exists as in a dyadic relationship with what is referred to as Oppositional Defiant Disorder (at least when it occurs in ADHDers anyway).

    At their root, I think that both are responses to the emotional dysregulation of ADHD. In one example you have ADHDers who are prone to internalising these emotional extremes in the experience, as I’ve already described in the post above but on the other side, I think that there are ADHDers who are prone to externalising and this comes out in ODD-like behaviour (and it probably develops into anger management and aggression problems later in life, once the brain has really fully developed and its ability to inhibit behaviour kicks in.)

    My hypothesis is that the ADHDers who are more inattentive in their expression of ADHD traits are the ones who internalise a lot more and so those are the ones who are more likely to experience RSD because they are naturally inclined to turn the ADHD emotional dysregulation inwards whereas the ADHDers who are more hyperactive in their expression of ADHD are the ones who externalise a lot more and so they are more likely to experience ODD and related aggression problems because they are turning that same fundamental experience of emotional dysregulation outwards.

    The reason why I think this is the case is that both seem to be rooted in the same disproportionate threat response.

    For whatever reason, maybe a parent tells their kid that they’re not getting McDonald’s for dinner tonight because they’ve been behaving poorly at school for example, that threat response kicks off and the emotional reaction is dialled up to 11. The ADHD kid who experiences RSD will feel absolutely emotionally devastated at this, to the point where it hurts, and the ADHD kid who experiences ODD will feel like their very existence is being threatened and they will react will very aggressive behaviour.

    Note that I’m not making value-judgements about either and ultimately my thoughts are that it’s a pretty wretched experience, it can be very difficult to manage socially, and in some respects it can be quite disabling for different reasons.

    This is all armchair expertise and wild speculation so don’t go believing what I have said because it sounds reasonable or it seems convincing enough. If you experience this, or you know someone around you who does, observe it and consider what I’ve said with a lot of caution and a critical perspective. There’s no evidence backing this up, there’s no research that has been done to understand what I’m talking about as far as I’m aware. I’m barely an expert in my own experience after all.

    I can talk about how I have managed my own experience of RSD, why I am convinced that it exists, and how I have responded to treating it if anyone is interested.

    • Budwig_v_1337hoven [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      5 months ago

      I can talk about how I have managed my own experience of RSD, why I am convinced that it exists, and how I have responded to treating it if anyone is interested.

      please do, I’m very interested. When I first heard about RSD, all the lights went on in my head, it explained so much of my social inhibitions, my reluctance to talk to people and just general anxiety when meeting strangers - especially when I found them interesting in some way. Until then, I thought everyone was deathly afraid of these things and everyone else was just way braver than me.

      Understanding some of these connections has already helped me a lot, but I’m sure you’ve got some interesting, more in-depth things to say about it all - if you feel like it, please do elaborate

      • ReadFanon [any, any]@hexbear.netOP
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        5 months ago

        Sure thing.

        So I experienced a lot of childhood trauma and worked through it as best I could. There are things that still get me but I’m pretty aware of those trauma triggers and I’ve noticed that as I work my way through resolving the trauma, the amount that I get triggered definitely lessens. A lot of things that would wreck me for a day might just have me feeling on edge for the day or even just a couple of hours.

        But then there was this other experience that was very similar to this and I developed an awareness of it being separate to my trauma history and it didn’t feel the same to me. Working through the beliefs or feelings or circumstances around what set me off wouldn’t lessen the experience the next time around and there wasn’t a particular process where it would go: man yelling in a booming voice -> brain identifies this as being too close to what I have experienced that was traumatic -> trauma response and bringing up a lot of associated feelings, memories, narratives etc. Instead it would be these random almost shock-like body experiences as a response to when I fucked up somehow, kinda similar to how it feels when you plunge into icy cold water or you get punched in the solar plexus in how it would feel so immediate and visceral, except sometimes it would happen in response to a situation, sometimes it wouldn’t, and there was no obvious common denominator. I wouldn’t get the historical emotional or psychological context coming in just before or alongside this experience, although I would associate the experience with other times I had it happen to me prior. I noticed that this would happen after the inital response though.

        I just assumed I was crazy or it was PTSD for a very long time.

        What I found, though, is that getting on the right medication for my ADHD which happened to reduce my emotional reactivity (which I essentially lump into the same category as what the psychiatrists consider “impulsivity” and imo which is rooted in the same inability for the ADHD brain to inhibit an impulse), suddenly the RSD response just dropped off almost like magic. My brain still wants to go there but it is feels a bit like going over a speed bump these days - I notice my psychological response sorta escalating but almost as quickly I crest the top of a very limited shift and then return back to my baseline. This is something that happens in the course of only a couple of seconds at most. I went on this medication to manage the side effects of stimulants and not to treat my RSD, which I was only barely developing an awareness of at this point in time.

        What’s interesting though is that my trauma response is still there when I take that medication. The ceiling on it has been lowered noticeably, which is really nice, but if I’m around a man who is yelling in a booming voice, for example, I still go through the same old PTSD stuff and my mind dredges up all the old associated psychological content from what I’ve been through in my past.

        So what has worked for me personally to effectively eliminate that RSD response in me has been clonidine. What’s interesting is that clonidine seems to work for that behavioural inhibition and so this is what leads me to believe that RSD is due to a lack of capacity for behavioural inhibition in ADHDers. Clonidine is fairly short acting and I notice when I am late to taking my dose of it by maybe 2 hours or more that I’m capable of getting a higher RSD response than I’m used to. If I forget my dose that night, the next day I can tell because my RSD tendency starts to return to what it was prior to going on to clonidine.

        In all honesty I think that guanfacine, which is very similar to clonidine, is probably a better first option for most people with RSD because of how it works in the brain. If someone has PTSD though, I think clonidine is probably more useful for a couple of reasons. That being said, different people respond differently to meds so if you do happen to try one and it doesn’t work or you have side effects then it’s worth trying the other.

        If neither are suitable then my (un)educated guess would be to try out beta blockers such as propranolol next, as these work in a similar way to clonidine and guanfacine so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they were a slightly different route to get to the same destination.

        I also suspect that as the usual ADHD stimulants would help with behavioural inhibition and, if my spitballing and use of my own experience as a guinea pig is correct, it could be expected that they would tend to dampen down the RSD response too but my hunch is that they would tend to be less effective overall (which might be perfectly fine for some people who experience RSD - oftentimes more isn’t necessary better with psychiatric meds.)

        I hope that’s useful info. Of course this is way off the beaten path for ADHD and this is basically just me experiencing unusual things in response to meds, furiously researching what the hell is going on, trying to come up with a working hypothesis, and then testing things out on myself to see if I’m right or wrong about my assumptions and repeating this until I seem to have arrived at the right conclusion, at least for my own situation. So this comment is not something that should be considered as being based in hard facts, it’s really just a case study with some of my own analysis mixed in.

        • Budwig_v_1337hoven [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          5 months ago

          Very useful, that’s an interesting possible link there - Intuitively, I’d have guessed it the other way around, ie. RSD being a symptom of an excess of inhibition. Gonna let this ferment a bit, maybe come back to it. A heartfelt thanks to you for sharing your experience and hypotheses, it’s super helpful - and I’m sure not just - to me

      • the_itsb [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        5 months ago

        Until then, I thought everyone was deathly afraid of these things and everyone else was just way braver than me.

        aaaaaaahhhhhhhh I relate, so hard

        I think I’ve said something very much like that to somebody and didn’t believe them when they said it wasn’t true 🤦😂

    • the_itsb [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      5 months ago

      I’m diagnosed with combined type with more hyperactive traits, but I’m also autistic and was physically and emotionally abused for most infractions as a kid. (Even for stuff like potty training, I recently learned - wtf!) I wonder if that had anything to do with turning the response inward? It seems logical; it wasn’t safe to act out, because acting out resulted in more abuse.

      • ReadFanon [any, any]@hexbear.netOP
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        5 months ago

        I wonder if that had anything to do with turning the response inward? It seems logical; it wasn’t safe to act out, because acting out resulted in more abuse.

        This 100% tracks with my experience.

        Trauma in general seems to do this, but a steady barrage of trauma and abuse in your developmental period seems to be especially good at doing this. Kids act out because they haven’t yet developed the skills and the cognitive capacity to regulate their own behaviour. When a kid is not safe to act out and they don’t have adults around them who help them regulate this for them and, over time, to teach them how to self-regulate then all of that stuff generally just gets turned inwards.

    • RedWizard [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      5 months ago

      I forget who I was listening to at the time, but I watched a talk by someone who studies ADHD (maybe one of the doctors you mentioned earlier, unsure) who touched on ODD during their talk. They believed that ODD was something that developed as a result of living in a household with an adult who is also suffering from ADHD and is not managing it. He noted that it often seemed that there was a parent in the mix who exhibited signs of ADHD themselves without realizing it. His thought being that because the ADHD parent has such a hard time delivering a consistent and structured experience for the child (because they themselves have bad routines and poor daily structure), that it leads to these kinds of ODD behaviors, due in part to a total lack of structure. Also, that the adult with ADHD will be more prone to heightened emotional responses to stress, presenting as Hot one moment and Cold another for similar actions from the child.

      This is basically a memory of a memory currently, if I have time to find what I was listening to, I’ll edit this with a link.

      It is becoming increasingly clear, through research, that ADHD is passed down from the parents. I strongly believe that my parents both have ADHD. It’s incredibly prevalent within our wider family, all of my siblings have it, and many of my cousins have it as well. I wasn’t diagnosed until my mid-20s, and neither of my parents are formally diagnosed. It does beg the question, what kind of impact (if any) does a parent (or parents) with undiagnosed ADHD have on a child with ADHD?

      • TheDeed [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        5 months ago

        Interesting. My anecdotal and not at all scientific experience - the kids of my friends that have ODD, the friend or their partner also has ADHD. (3)

        Although this may be because I’m ADHD so I know a lot of other people with ADHD, we gravitate towards one another