I’m sorry, no. Films and movies have, to some extent, artistic merit. I think the discourse in a communist world would be “what is pornographic” and what has “artistic value”; there’s terrible movies and great porn right now so that’d make for an interesting discourse - the distinction would probably reside on performed sex scenes vs. penetrative acts. But on the concept of comparison, let’s look at analogous professions like “porn star” and “prostitute” (appropriate and respectful term being sex worker). Grab a list of zip codes in this country and divided by median income. If you visited each one and offered random man or woman money in exchange for sex, how likely is it that those in higher income areas would say yes? What would they agree to? Now, widen your search and make your way down each zip code, the chances you “convince” someone increases. Imperialist white supremacist patriarchal capitalist societies create ethnic and low-income enclaves that allow for prostitution and exploitation in a variety of ways. Patriarchal systems generate sexual exploitation. Capitalist societies maintain that exploitation under class hierarchal relations and labor exploitation. Now think of this at the global scale. The existence of an industry that generate pornographic or sexually explicit interactions between client and worker, necessitate a constant supply of bodies; specially because Patriarchal values has pedophilic tendencies. I think it’s also worth noting that current, and mainstream, pornsites try to filter, to some extent, major abuses; but even mindgeek/pornhub has run into legal issues due to age and model verification systems, with revenge, exploitative, and CSA uploaded to their site, not to mention they are an exploitative monopoly that control major distribution platforms. One of the arguments that pro-porn proponents are currently making is that banning pornhub or forcing them to store a license, drives users to websites that are not rated, do not follow certain policies, and are part of the “dark web”; where young adults can be exposed to unmoderated pornographic material.
I don’t think we’d ever reach a communist utopia, specially with climate change breathing down our necks, but I do think that communist countries are following good principles when they try to legislate away certain industries and try to raise the standard of living for exploited populations.
What would that mean for personal sexual relationships? I think, if anything, adults might become freer from current sexual mores and would rely less on explicit pornographic material to compensate.
Do people who have suffered traumatic events watch films and television to dissociate from their lives?
Not so fun fact, yes actually folks that suffer from high anxiety will often watch the same shows this process is comforting, yes, but maladaptive.
The more that you write, the more that you are revealing that you have ulterior motives for the things that you are saying. You wrote that communism will have an excessive amount of legislation. (It won’t) You wrote that you think that communism is an unreachable utopia. (It isn’t) Now you are saying that pornographic media must have “artistic value”. (It shouldn’t) A discussion about whether media should exist on the merits of “artistic value” is not interesting discourse, it is incredibly reactionary. When you say that porn may only be allowed to exist if you deem to have artistic merit, you are admitting that you are motivated by reactionary beliefs.
Banning media on the idea that it lacked artistic merit and would therefore harm society was a key principle of Nazi Germany. In Nazi Germany, media that was considered to be “d*generate” was censored or banned. Nazis censored paintings, music, films, and plays under the premise that lacking what they deemed “artistic value” would lead German society to being influenced by Jews and Communists. This is the same reason that Republicans (and even Democrats) want to ban pornography today. Reactionaries want to ban the portrayal of sexual fantasies in media as the first step towards banning those same sexual fantasies in real life. Reactionaries don’t want porn to exist because they don’t want LGBT people to exist and they don’t want sexual freedom to exist. The reactionary wants to ban pornography so that sex is more oppressive.
Artistic merit is not objective. Neither you or I should judge which media should exist based on the grounds of lacking “artistic value”. I do not see any reason why a communist society would not have consenting adults who want to film their sexual acts and then want other consenting adults to watch it.
Banning media on the idea that it lacked artistic merit and would therefore harm society was a key principle of Nazi Germany. In Nazi Germany, media that was considered to be “d*generate” was censored or banned. Nazis censored paintings, music, films, and plays under the premise that lacking what they deemed “artistic value” would lead German society to being influenced by Jews and Communists.
I did not say porn would be banned. I said that the porn industry would be legislated away due to the tight regulations. When I talked about the hypothetical communist world, I referred to the discourse of what falls in the pornographic and in the artistic. In my initial post, I accounted for exhibitionists and later discussed kinks. Porn stars often talk about polyamory, swinging, and kinks related to exhibitionism. But that’s a minority compared to the percentage of individuals doing porn for exploitative reasons. Capitalist labor relations is inherently exploitative, this is not a matter of debate, not in communist discussions.
In writing about this topic, I’ve had in my mind so much violent and demeaning porn that objectifies and encourages violence against women, but hide behind “kinks” or “rough play”. There was a recent article about an isolated tribe getting access to the internet and young adult males starting to mimic violent sexual acts.
Choking, which has increased in popularity can cause brain damage, and can edge the line of a consensual and nonconsensual act. It is depicted so often, in even the most “vanilla” of porn. Young girls in high school and college are being choked with often zero recourse.
Reactionaries want to ban the portrayal of sexual fantasies in media as the first step towards banning those same sexual fantasies in real life. Reactionaries don’t want porn to exist because they don’t want LGBT people to exist and they don’t want sexual freedom to exist. The reactionary wants to ban pornography so that sex is more oppressive.
This is the argument that made me, need to, respond. This is naively liberal and backwards. Reactionaries think banning sexual fantasies and representation will make LGBTQ people go away, because they think the media is the root cause, and not an expression of, LGBTQ people’s existence. Clearly, you and I both know that’s not true, correct? LGBTQ people have existed for as long as there has been humans. Media representation can be correlated to higher acceptance and human right protections, but that’s clearly not always the case. At least not with the current backlash.
That said, considering there is vile and objectionable porn that represents LGBTQ people in horrible ways. I’m thinking here of porn that refers to transgender women with slurs or “she-males” or encourages “chaser” behavior, seeing people as objects or ways to satisfy a “kink”. Do not praise the master’s chains just because they are rainbow colored. The objectification, exploitation and sexual violence that occurs, and is promoted, by pornography is worthy of analyzing, criticizing, and possibly doing away with it.
You wrote that communism will have an excessive amount of legislation. (It won’t) You wrote that you think that communism is an unreachable utopia. (It isn’t) Now you are saying that pornographic media must have “artistic value”. (It shouldn’t) A discussion about whether media should exist on the merits of “artistic value” is not interesting discourse, it is incredibly reactionary.
I didn’t say excessive bureaucratic legislation. I referred to the idea of having tight controls and regulations that prevent the profitable exploitation of models. This would essentially “do away” with the porn industry as it exists.
You wrote that you think that communism is an unreachable utopia. (It isn’t)
Whether it is or isn’t, is a matter of debate not just here, but in international communist circles. I am accounting for my pessimistic outlook on the consequences of climate change, and the possible consequences of multipolarity that is developing right now. Multipolarity often ends in war.
Now you are saying that pornographic media must have “artistic value”. (It shouldn’t) A discussion about whether media should exist on the merits of “artistic value” is not interesting discourse, it is incredibly reactionary.
I make art in my spare time. I engage in drawing, painting, photography, and video making. I engage with the naked figure all the time. I actually think this is an interesting discussion to have, and not just an argument of “bare minimum threshold” to pass. I am not saying this as a throw-away sentence, or to pass judgment. This is worth engaging with, defining, and acting on. I do come at it from a communist worldview. So I’m a bit upset not to be given the benefit of the doubt here.
I’m sorry, no. Films and movies have, to some extent, artistic merit. I think the discourse in a communist world would be “what is pornographic” and what has “artistic value”; there’s terrible movies and great porn right now so that’d make for an interesting discourse - the distinction would probably reside on performed sex scenes vs. penetrative acts. But on the concept of comparison, let’s look at analogous professions like “porn star” and “prostitute” (appropriate and respectful term being sex worker). Grab a list of zip codes in this country and divided by median income. If you visited each one and offered random man or woman money in exchange for sex, how likely is it that those in higher income areas would say yes? What would they agree to? Now, widen your search and make your way down each zip code, the chances you “convince” someone increases. Imperialist white supremacist patriarchal capitalist societies create ethnic and low-income enclaves that allow for prostitution and exploitation in a variety of ways. Patriarchal systems generate sexual exploitation. Capitalist societies maintain that exploitation under class hierarchal relations and labor exploitation. Now think of this at the global scale. The existence of an industry that generate pornographic or sexually explicit interactions between client and worker, necessitate a constant supply of bodies; specially because Patriarchal values has pedophilic tendencies. I think it’s also worth noting that current, and mainstream, pornsites try to filter, to some extent, major abuses; but even mindgeek/pornhub has run into legal issues due to age and model verification systems, with revenge, exploitative, and CSA uploaded to their site, not to mention they are an exploitative monopoly that control major distribution platforms. One of the arguments that pro-porn proponents are currently making is that banning pornhub or forcing them to store a license, drives users to websites that are not rated, do not follow certain policies, and are part of the “dark web”; where young adults can be exposed to unmoderated pornographic material.
I don’t think we’d ever reach a communist utopia, specially with climate change breathing down our necks, but I do think that communist countries are following good principles when they try to legislate away certain industries and try to raise the standard of living for exploited populations.
What would that mean for personal sexual relationships? I think, if anything, adults might become freer from current sexual mores and would rely less on explicit pornographic material to compensate.
Not so fun fact, yes actually folks that suffer from high anxiety will often watch the same shows this process is comforting, yes, but maladaptive.
The more that you write, the more that you are revealing that you have ulterior motives for the things that you are saying. You wrote that communism will have an excessive amount of legislation. (It won’t) You wrote that you think that communism is an unreachable utopia. (It isn’t) Now you are saying that pornographic media must have “artistic value”. (It shouldn’t) A discussion about whether media should exist on the merits of “artistic value” is not interesting discourse, it is incredibly reactionary. When you say that porn may only be allowed to exist if you deem to have artistic merit, you are admitting that you are motivated by reactionary beliefs.
Banning media on the idea that it lacked artistic merit and would therefore harm society was a key principle of Nazi Germany. In Nazi Germany, media that was considered to be “d*generate” was censored or banned. Nazis censored paintings, music, films, and plays under the premise that lacking what they deemed “artistic value” would lead German society to being influenced by Jews and Communists. This is the same reason that Republicans (and even Democrats) want to ban pornography today. Reactionaries want to ban the portrayal of sexual fantasies in media as the first step towards banning those same sexual fantasies in real life. Reactionaries don’t want porn to exist because they don’t want LGBT people to exist and they don’t want sexual freedom to exist. The reactionary wants to ban pornography so that sex is more oppressive.
Artistic merit is not objective. Neither you or I should judge which media should exist based on the grounds of lacking “artistic value”. I do not see any reason why a communist society would not have consenting adults who want to film their sexual acts and then want other consenting adults to watch it.
I did not say porn would be banned. I said that the porn industry would be legislated away due to the tight regulations. When I talked about the hypothetical communist world, I referred to the discourse of what falls in the pornographic and in the artistic. In my initial post, I accounted for exhibitionists and later discussed kinks. Porn stars often talk about polyamory, swinging, and kinks related to exhibitionism. But that’s a minority compared to the percentage of individuals doing porn for exploitative reasons. Capitalist labor relations is inherently exploitative, this is not a matter of debate, not in communist discussions.
In writing about this topic, I’ve had in my mind so much violent and demeaning porn that objectifies and encourages violence against women, but hide behind “kinks” or “rough play”. There was a recent article about an isolated tribe getting access to the internet and young adult males starting to mimic violent sexual acts.
Choking, which has increased in popularity can cause brain damage, and can edge the line of a consensual and nonconsensual act. It is depicted so often, in even the most “vanilla” of porn. Young girls in high school and college are being choked with often zero recourse.
Women are killed through asphyxiation, and husbands/murderers claim it was accidental during sex-play.
This is the argument that made me, need to, respond. This is naively liberal and backwards. Reactionaries think banning sexual fantasies and representation will make LGBTQ people go away, because they think the media is the root cause, and not an expression of, LGBTQ people’s existence. Clearly, you and I both know that’s not true, correct? LGBTQ people have existed for as long as there has been humans. Media representation can be correlated to higher acceptance and human right protections, but that’s clearly not always the case. At least not with the current backlash.
That said, considering there is vile and objectionable porn that represents LGBTQ people in horrible ways. I’m thinking here of porn that refers to transgender women with slurs or “she-males” or encourages “chaser” behavior, seeing people as objects or ways to satisfy a “kink”. Do not praise the master’s chains just because they are rainbow colored. The objectification, exploitation and sexual violence that occurs, and is promoted, by pornography is worthy of analyzing, criticizing, and possibly doing away with it.
I didn’t say excessive bureaucratic legislation. I referred to the idea of having tight controls and regulations that prevent the profitable exploitation of models. This would essentially “do away” with the porn industry as it exists.
Whether it is or isn’t, is a matter of debate not just here, but in international communist circles. I am accounting for my pessimistic outlook on the consequences of climate change, and the possible consequences of multipolarity that is developing right now. Multipolarity often ends in war.
I make art in my spare time. I engage in drawing, painting, photography, and video making. I engage with the naked figure all the time. I actually think this is an interesting discussion to have, and not just an argument of “bare minimum threshold” to pass. I am not saying this as a throw-away sentence, or to pass judgment. This is worth engaging with, defining, and acting on. I do come at it from a communist worldview. So I’m a bit upset not to be given the benefit of the doubt here.
Thank you for your input by the way, your comments made me think.