I like when characters are clearly defined. You need a clear baseline of a starting point of who these characters are, and where they come from. Their personality can change over time, but not WHO they are. So things like age (unless you plan to age the entire universe equally), facial features, race, gender, eye color, hair color, body size, body shape. These are all things that need to be consistant no matter how many times you reboot the series. Peter Parker has been a high school/early college aged skinny white boy who just happens to be Spiderman. Batman is always an early 40s, maybe mid 30s rich businessman, who happens to be Batman.
When they wanted to make a black kid as Spiderman, they created a new character. I’m not sure if it’s just for the video games (I don’t regularly read comics, and I haven’t seen him in any movies), they created Miles Morales. A NEW CHARACTER, and the city doesn’t know Spidermans identity. They’ve seen him change his costume before. So he can “be” Spiderman, but he’s a different physical person. And that’s fine. That’s how you SHOULD go about making a change to who the super hero is, without doing a hard reset on the universe.
But Catwoman? She’s all over the place. Sometimes she’s white, sometimes she’s black, sometimes she’s young, sometimes she’s old, sometimes she’s a villain, sometimes she’s a hero, and then one time for no reason at all they had her play basketball…the nails I get, because she’s CATwoman, but why the whip? Sometimes she has the whip, sometimes not. Pick a lane!!! God damn! Are there multiple catwomen? Am I supposed to believe there’s an entire commitee of women who’s sole goal in life is to point out how stupid Batman is, that he’s not noticing that every time he runs into Catwoman, she’s clearly a different person? Sometimes she loves Batman, sometimes she’s lesbian. Sometimes she’s anti-social. Sometimes she teams up with other villians. Sometimes she teams up with Batman.
NO! FIGURE IT OUT DC!!! She’s Selina Kyle. That’s your starting point. If I’m to believe in this character, you need to define who she is. If there are multiple catwomen, that needs to be explained.
You don’t see Harley Quinn changing drastic things about her to the point of being unrecognizable. I remember being in the theater watching The Dark Knight Rises, and thinking “Huh. A woman wearing all black, who’s a cat burglar. Why don’t they just replace this character with Catwoman???”
It wasn’t until later in the movie when I pieced together that she WAS supposed to be Catwoman.
THIS was the biggest “WTF ARE YOU DOING???” moment I had about the catwoman character. Scarecrow was clearly defined. Joker was clearly defined. Two face was clearly defined. All these characters there was no mistake who it was. Even Robin at the end of the movie didn’t get a clear “IS that Robin, or not???”
But Catwoman only became apperent about halfway through the movie. She had no connection or imagery OF cats. It’s actually WORSE than the 1993 Super Mario Bros movie, when you saw the Goombas. At least there they explained “Hey, these are the goombas.” They never explained why some of them had long lizard faces, and some had round heads…but they used the word “Goomba” right in the introduction. With Catwoman, they NEVER said “Catwoman” the entire movie.
And it doesn’t help things that the 2004 Catwoman movie with Halle Berry was just…just so bad. I love Halle Berry, but come on. I think even she’d admit that was a low point in her career creatively.
The 1992 Batman Returns is THE definitive Catwoman. THAT’S how you do it.
There’s also the campy 1960s tv show version of Catwoman. Considering the rest of the show, Catwoman was fine here. Nothing too remarkable, but then again nothing from that version was. Other than maybe Ceasar Romero not shaving before putting on Joker face paint. I mean really. Did he never see the character? Joker does NOT have facial hair!
My only theory is that it’s multiple women, and they’re all Catwoman. Batman, and the audience are treated like they don’t see the constant shifting in who that is.
And yes, I’m also upset by Batman and Robin. All of it. Just…the whole movie. Mr Freeze is not some hulking power lifter. Poison Ivy was played alright I guess. Robin is not some dude in his 40s. He’s supposed to be like 13. And yes, I realize that kind of makes Bruce Wayne/Batman a little suspicious that he’s a grown ass man hanging out with this random 8th grader. Even moreso when you realize he’s hanging out with him to get help from this boy fighting the most psychotic maniacs in Gotham.
“Ok, Robin. We’ve got to stop the Joker. He’s going to blow up the bank. He’s going to have armed henchmen all over the ground. He’s going to have bombs inside the bank. Here’s a big stick.”
Ok, I’m losing focus here, and the more I type the more I realize how weird the Batman universe is.
And it doesn’t help things that the 2004 Catwoman movie with Halle Berry was just…just so bad. I love Halle Berry, but come on. I think even she’d admit that was a low point in her career creatively.
She won a Razzie for that role. I think she’s one of the few people who actually collected theirs. She dedicated it to her agent who acquired the role for her. And I think it was the same year she also won an Oscar.
The 1992 Batman Returns is THE definitive Catwoman. THAT’S how you do it.
She’s great. But for me the definitive Catwoman has always been the one from The Animated Series. Bored rich woman steals for the thrill and as an activist against animal abuse.
No idea what the original concept for Catwoman was.
No idea what the original concept for Catwoman was.
In a much shorter sentence you managed to capture the spirit of my issue with the character.
Batman: His parents were murdered in front of him. He has mental issues from that which force him to represent justice by taking the role of what he fears most…bats.
Two Face: duality of man represented both physically and mentally.
Joker: Absolute psychopath clown with no known backstory.
Mr Freeze: Is forced to use the cold to adapt to the only environment his wife can survive in due to a rare disease she has.
Riddler: He likes riddles and the color green. Dresses like he wants to give you the governments money in the 90s.
Catwoman: ??? Something with cats?
I mean with that definition of joker, catwoman makes just as much sense. Catburgler who dresses like a cat and acts like a cat. Joker has just as many problems with the character.
You’re over-thinking it.
I mean…you’ve seen my username, right? Overthinking thinks is kind of my whole thing.
Oh I know because I do it myself but you need a multiversal overview on this - all exist and all are equally valid, they are just different versions of each other.
Their personality can change over time, but not WHO they are. So things like age (unless you plan to age the entire universe equally), facial features, race
Oh boy, you’re going to piss off so many people with that one.
I really like how they handled it with Miles Moralis and wrote a completely new story. It’s a great story too! They respected who Peter has always been, while still creating a new Spider-Man. BTW, since it seems that you’re unaware, Miles came from Into the Spiderverse, which is an awesome animated movie. Check it out, you’ll enjoy it. The second one is actually only half of a movie though, and we didn’t know that going in, so I’d steer clear of that until the 3rd comes out.
Miles has been around in the comics long before Into the Spider-Verse. Still a great movie everyone should watch.
Oh, I didn’t know that. Cool. I stopped reading comics decades ago.
Welcome to the world of long-running comics, where it’s common for each writer to take liberties with the character. Everyone has their own view of what role these characters play in the story, and the interpretation will vary wildly
Your example of Peter Parker is a funny one, because they really have changed his age, hair color, body type, and general attitude and character over across the different storylines. The only real consistent thing about him has been that he’s been white and was bitten by a spider.
Catwoman is far from the only character who is all over the place over the decades. She’s just one of the most consistently used characters to put into the story. Her role is usually that of a “forbidden love interest” for Batman. I know that’s not always super obvious, because writers try to make sure that’s not the only trait of her character, so they fill in all the rest of the details to fit within the tone and setting of the world they created
Halle Berry was not meant to be the same Catwoman at all, and can be effectively left out of this discussion
I’m not sure if it’s just for the video games (I don’t regularly read comics, and I haven’t seen him in any movies),
Wasn’t TDKR Catwoman shown wearing an eye mask with goggles that flipped up, resembling cat ears?
Then The Batman’s had a weird half-face balleklava with a prominent seam with squared corners that resembled cat ears?
Between the two, The Batman’s version was significantly worse.
Never even watched The Batman. Also never watched that movie called “Joker”. Apperently it has a sequal coming out, and I do NOT understand why. Is anyone trying to see that? I genuinely cannot tell if That Joker is worse, or if Jarod Leto is worse. At least Jarod Leto was only around for a cup of coffee. The other one will now have TWO FULL MOVIES dedicated to him.
God dammit Heath Ledger! Why did you have to die??? I thought you didn’t play Joker as Joker, but at least your take was great to watch. Would have made TDKR 1000% better.
While we’re on the subject of portrayals of characters being wildly out of character but still good…can I just give a shoutout to Bane in the HBO Max Harley Quinn??? I love him. He’s NOT Bane in any way, but that’s true of that whole show. EVERY character is wildly off, but I do love what they did with Bane.
