Election law experts said over the weekend that billionaire Tesla CEO Elon Musk's latest ploy to entice voters in battleground states to sign his "petition in favor of free speech and the right to bear arms" appears to be flagrantly illegal.
The petition states, “By signing below, I am pledging my support for the First and Second Amendments.”
It says nothing about buying votes, pledging to vote for a candidate, or providing any proof that you voted at all. The only requirement is that you are registered voter in one of a handful of states.
As a registered democrat in PA, what’s preventing me from signing the petition and getting some free cash? If I believe that voting for Harris is a vote to support the first and second amendments, which I fully do, what’s the problem?
His purpose for providing the money is not just for you to sign a partition. It is to buy your favor and join him in voting for Trump. You are foolish if you think otherwise.
Musk did go to a Trump rally and say specifically voting for Trump is to preserve your first amendment rights and then offered to pay for people to vote to protect their first amendment rights. That seems legally questionable to me.
The article, which is quoting someone on twitter, states that what he’s doing is illegal because he’s offering to buy votes. This is in contrast to what the petition actually states. There is no requirement for you to vote for anyone at all in order to get paid and enter a lottery. That is, unless you can direct me to something that explicitly, in writing, supports your claim.
Oh my goodness let me break it down for you. It is not just illegal to to pay people to vote it is illegal to pay people to register to vote. He is using a lottery system which pays people money to sign his petition the requirement to sign the petition is you have to be registered to vote. The Petition could say I like eggs. The petition is meaningless. The purpose is to get people to register to vote that are like minded to Elon using the possible payment of large sums of money. “Musk’s sweepstakes-style award is only available for registered swing-state voters who sign his right-wing PAC’s pledge.” - https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/20/24274971/elon-musk-1-million-prize-america-pac-petition-voting-presidential-election
OK… the exceptionally odd part of your response is that we’re commenting on a specific article speaking about this and you’ve linked to an entirely different web site. Do you work for the verge?
I would like to see some court cases related a requirement to be a registered voter to enter a sweepstakes.
Still, again, my point is regarding what is implied in this article which is that Musk is paying people to vote for Trump. You do agree that this is not the case, correct?
Edit: I think I get it. No one wants to hold the media accountable when they say something that enforces our existing opinions of people - even when it’s verifiably untrue.
So, while it’s readily apparent that Musk is not guilty of “Clearly Illegal Vote-Buying”, he has established something in which any registered voter in a handful of states can “pledge their support for the First and Second Amendments” and receive financial compensation. There is in fact no requirement to vote for either Trump or Harris nor to cast a vote in this coming election.
It would seem plausible, based on the US Code quoted in the article, that it’s not legal to require someone to be a registered voter to sign a petition and receive compensation. Frankly, I think people are grossly overlooking the fact that someone is paying someone to sign a petition to begin with. I would certainly hope that this is something law enforcement takes a look at.
However, the claim that Musk is paying people to vote for Trump is not at all factual. This would make this “Common Dreams” article misinformation - would it not?
Still, again, my point is regarding what is implied in this article which is that Musk is paying people to vote for Trump. You do agree that this is not the case, correct?
No. Musk goes to a rally and says vote for Trump to preserve your first amendment rights then offers money to people pledging to support first amendment rights. Stop playing dumb
I find it frustrating that people want to call me out for calling out the media but no one wants to hold the media accountable - especially when it supports your existing narrative.
It is a fact that Musk is not buying votes. There is no exchange of money for proof of voting for anyone. He is potentially illegally asking people to sign a petition which requires they be a registered voter and giving them money for signing a petition. That’s the story.
Every article posted across the internet is full of misinformation and lies to promote existing narratives and agendas. People need to wake up and hold each other accountable for this. Not just when it’s in opposition to your feelings but also when it supports them.
I read elsewhere that the issue was that you had to sign the petition to be eligible to win, and that you had to be a registered voter to sign the petition. So technically it was paying to get you to register. Which is not allowed.
I’m guessing it will also play into Trump’s voter fraud claims later. Use Musk’s petition as “proof” that votes for him weren’t counted/were converted to Harris/some other nonsense claim because it’s heavily implied if you’ve signed the petition that you would be voting for trump.
They don’t need real events to site as proof. They prefer to make them up. It buys time while opponents have to try to figure out the source of the claim. I mean if you are going to lie, this is a great plan.
Derek Muller, an election law expert at Notre Dame Law School, said Sunday that “when you start limiting prizes or giveaways to only registered voters or only people who have voted, that’s where bribery concerns arise.” “By limiting a giveaway only to registered voters,” Muller added, “it looks like you’re giving cash for voter registration.”
Does lemmy.ml prevent you from reading articles or are you being purposely obtuse?
Trump Backer Elon Musk Accused of ‘Clearly Illegal Vote-Buying’.
I’m not sure what reality you all are a pat of. I’m just sitting here reading and commenting on what was shared. It is a fact that Musk is not buying votes. Had the article made the claim that “Musk pays registered voters to sign a petition”, that would be legit.
The article didn’t make a claim. It’s reporting on claims made by other people. There’s more to an article than the title but even the title isn’t explicitly stating what he did is illegal. It’s literally reporting on people accusing him of it yet you latched on to the accusation like they’re reporting it as fact, also known as strawman.
And I’m ot running a brothel in my hourly motel outside of town. People rent the room for 2 hours, and it’s none of my business what happens between them and the housekeeper
I suppose you would have to look up the law against it and see what it calls the action. They could call it Mississippi steamboating if they wanted to. So the possibility it is called vote buying isn’t unreasonable.
But if you are just arguing that the headline is misleading… water is wet too.
I don’t understand what’s being implied here.
The petition states, “By signing below, I am pledging my support for the First and Second Amendments.”
It says nothing about buying votes, pledging to vote for a candidate, or providing any proof that you voted at all. The only requirement is that you are registered voter in one of a handful of states.
As a registered democrat in PA, what’s preventing me from signing the petition and getting some free cash? If I believe that voting for Harris is a vote to support the first and second amendments, which I fully do, what’s the problem?
His purpose for providing the money is not just for you to sign a partition. It is to buy your favor and join him in voting for Trump. You are foolish if you think otherwise.
Where do you see this?
His entire push is for people to vote for Trump the money and the petition is for you to enter his camp. Stop playing dumb.
Can’t you just take the money and then vote for whoever you want?
Yes you can. The focus is on getting people to register to vote that are like minded to Elon but you can play him and take the money.
Not dumb. It’s a legitimate question if we’re talking legality.
Musk did go to a Trump rally and say specifically voting for Trump is to preserve your first amendment rights and then offered to pay for people to vote to protect their first amendment rights. That seems legally questionable to me.
You’re ignoring my question.
The article, which is quoting someone on twitter, states that what he’s doing is illegal because he’s offering to buy votes. This is in contrast to what the petition actually states. There is no requirement for you to vote for anyone at all in order to get paid and enter a lottery. That is, unless you can direct me to something that explicitly, in writing, supports your claim.
Oh my goodness let me break it down for you. It is not just illegal to to pay people to vote it is illegal to pay people to register to vote. He is using a lottery system which pays people money to sign his petition the requirement to sign the petition is you have to be registered to vote. The Petition could say I like eggs. The petition is meaningless. The purpose is to get people to register to vote that are like minded to Elon using the possible payment of large sums of money. “Musk’s sweepstakes-style award is only available for registered swing-state voters who sign his right-wing PAC’s pledge.” - https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/20/24274971/elon-musk-1-million-prize-america-pac-petition-voting-presidential-election
OK… the exceptionally odd part of your response is that we’re commenting on a specific article speaking about this and you’ve linked to an entirely different web site. Do you work for the verge?
I would like to see some court cases related a requirement to be a registered voter to enter a sweepstakes.
Still, again, my point is regarding what is implied in this article which is that Musk is paying people to vote for Trump. You do agree that this is not the case, correct?
Edit: I think I get it. No one wants to hold the media accountable when they say something that enforces our existing opinions of people - even when it’s verifiably untrue.
So, while it’s readily apparent that Musk is not guilty of “Clearly Illegal Vote-Buying”, he has established something in which any registered voter in a handful of states can “pledge their support for the First and Second Amendments” and receive financial compensation. There is in fact no requirement to vote for either Trump or Harris nor to cast a vote in this coming election.
It would seem plausible, based on the US Code quoted in the article, that it’s not legal to require someone to be a registered voter to sign a petition and receive compensation. Frankly, I think people are grossly overlooking the fact that someone is paying someone to sign a petition to begin with. I would certainly hope that this is something law enforcement takes a look at.
However, the claim that Musk is paying people to vote for Trump is not at all factual. This would make this “Common Dreams” article misinformation - would it not?
No. Musk goes to a rally and says vote for Trump to preserve your first amendment rights then offers money to people pledging to support first amendment rights. Stop playing dumb
I find it frustrating that people want to call me out for calling out the media but no one wants to hold the media accountable - especially when it supports your existing narrative.
It is a fact that Musk is not buying votes. There is no exchange of money for proof of voting for anyone. He is potentially illegally asking people to sign a petition which requires they be a registered voter and giving them money for signing a petition. That’s the story.
Every article posted across the internet is full of misinformation and lies to promote existing narratives and agendas. People need to wake up and hold each other accountable for this. Not just when it’s in opposition to your feelings but also when it supports them.
Does the receipt of cash-money dollars not release dopamine in your brain or are you simply being willfully obtuse with this contribution?
I read elsewhere that the issue was that you had to sign the petition to be eligible to win, and that you had to be a registered voter to sign the petition. So technically it was paying to get you to register. Which is not allowed.
I’m guessing it will also play into Trump’s voter fraud claims later. Use Musk’s petition as “proof” that votes for him weren’t counted/were converted to Harris/some other nonsense claim because it’s heavily implied if you’ve signed the petition that you would be voting for trump.
They don’t need real events to site as proof. They prefer to make them up. It buys time while opponents have to try to figure out the source of the claim. I mean if you are going to lie, this is a great plan.
So, not “vote-buying”.
Does lemmy.ml prevent you from reading articles or are you being purposely obtuse?
So, not illegal vote buying. Correct?
Purposely obtuse, got it. Go strawman somewhere else
Title of article:
I’m not sure what reality you all are a pat of. I’m just sitting here reading and commenting on what was shared. It is a fact that Musk is not buying votes. Had the article made the claim that “Musk pays registered voters to sign a petition”, that would be legit.
The article didn’t make a claim. It’s reporting on claims made by other people. There’s more to an article than the title but even the title isn’t explicitly stating what he did is illegal. It’s literally reporting on people accusing him of it yet you latched on to the accusation like they’re reporting it as fact, also known as strawman.
Do you know if the “random $1 million payment each day to one registered voter” is actually random? Is Musk cherry picking a ‘specific’ supporter?
And I’m ot running a brothel in my hourly motel outside of town. People rent the room for 2 hours, and it’s none of my business what happens between them and the housekeeper
I suppose you would have to look up the law against it and see what it calls the action. They could call it Mississippi steamboating if they wanted to. So the possibility it is called vote buying isn’t unreasonable. But if you are just arguing that the headline is misleading… water is wet too.
Do it! The problem, which you will be helping to solve, is wealth concentration. Move that dough out of muskie’s bank account = good.