Members of the military have an obligation to refuse illegal orders. I am neither in the military nor a lawyer, so I can’t go too deep on that.
I have no doubt this is his first step in ferreting out any military leadership who holds loyalty to the constitution over him personally. Whether this particular plan is blocked or not, it lets him clear out anyone who won’t follow his orders without question going forward.
The US military is actually surprisingly decentralized, with a lot of leeway and authority given directly to NCOs, and officers routinely getting ignored, circumvented, or subjected to malicious compliance if they even order something considered unreasonable, much less illegal. Also see: fragging. Malingering. Mutiny. Desertion. And the worst nightmare - Insider Threat. So much of the military runs purely off of trust, faith, and compliance to words on a page.
You think Don’t Ask Don’t Tell was actually fully complied with? Sentries already fall asleep while at their post, willfully, without needing to have any excuse other than being tired or disliking the watch officer. Roving patrols routinely miss rounds, don’t actually pay attention or inspect anything, and practice what we call “blazing logs”, that is, writing down “all conditions satisfactory” without actually looking at the conditions. Maintenance also gets blazed all the time - technicians just straight up not doing the required maintenance and writing down that they did, substituting unauthorized materials, or half-assing the maintenance. Paperwork just gets “lost”, or never gets signed, never gets filed, never makes it to the intended recipient, just because the admin secretary doesn’t feel like it. Information isn’t entered into a system, including disciplinary or otherwise disqualifying stuff, because the admin or command likes you or needs you.
Purging the upper brass won’t do anything to circumvent or “fix” any of that, it’ll make it worse, because it’ll incentivize the servicemembers to do it even more. The E-4 Mafia will straight up disappear when needed, entire supply chains will stop cold. Separation and disciplinary paperwork will just not get sent.
What does America look like to the world if the most powerful military in the world refuses to follow orders from it’s elected government.
These idiots are going to turn the whole world upside down. Other nations military alliances will shift. China will swoop in to establish stability in it’s region of interest, Taiwan, slowing down our AI race (Biden tried to help get us started on that with the CHIPS act, thanks Brandon). We have a head start on quantum computing research, for now. But Europe is leading on physics and fusion reactors. But science is for nerds, so Europe will lose support from it’s most powerful ally leaving it open to Russia, who isn’t leading in much of anything these days and could really just use a win. First they’ll take the breadbasket because soldiers need to eat. And then continue to disrupt, weaken and push. Maybe start by cutting some major undersea internet cables. That’s got to be difficult to fix again, and again. Israel continues to make itself the enemy of the middle east so, America does what America does, go stomp around it’s old stomping grounds. Shock and Awe Y’all! Don’t worry about those recruitment numbers, they’re just a phase, the poor will still join. China and Russia keep pushing out, taking control of shipping routes and resources, slowly tighten the noose. China is allowed to keep pushing into ‘shithole’ African countries, raping them of their resources. China pushes to AI and Quantum. Russia pushes to Fusion and Physics. Each resource will be dependent on the other. The new world order is in balance.
America dwindles. If we’re lucky AI, or Fusion, will solve climate change before we go Venus.
But wait, up on the hill top! It’s Trump, Donald be his name. He has been crowned God King Emperor of Burgers and Men. Aliens have landed on the Whitehouse lawn. They are… the Whites! Blonde haired and big blue eyes, the most powerful of all aliens in the known galaxy. Their women are red heads, not all of them, but enough to be worth the trouble. Then all true Americans will sing ‘America, Fuck Yeah!’ as they rise up into the glorious heavens above to live with alien Jesus.
Then who should world leaders talk to concerning global affairs? The Generals? What countries do we know that are ruled by their militaries? What will the millions of people that elected this monster do? Will they understand, stand back and stand by, and acknowledge the rule of material law? Who should the military pick to rule instead of the elected party? We are fucked. Now he’s up there nominating obvious duds so his next list, the real list, looks like the better choice. The people pulling his strings are setting the stage. Only Alien Jesus can save us now.
The military just needs to say “no.” if ordered to do something unconstitutional, it doesn’t mean they have to enact a military coup.
Your argument technically would apply to Nazi Germany as well, and I really don’t think any of the other countries at the time would’ve looked down upon the Wehrmacht or Germany if they had refused to follow orders, except for Italy and Japan, they would’ve been judging’ hard.
Or France, which I remind you has thermonuclear weapons, will start selling said thermonuclear weapons to the rest of the EU, which then enables them to conduct retaliatory strategic strikes on Russia if it invades. Iran immediately develops and deploys thermonuclear weapons (they really only need to put the things together, they have all the parts they need) for strategic or tactical strikes against Israel. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Australia will acquire thermonuclear weapons for self-defense once the US nuclear umbrella is removed - and they have more than enough resources and know-how to just manufacture nuclear weapons from existing materials. India, with a higher population than China and an existing strategic thermonuclear arsenal, can and will turn the entirety of the Indian Ocean into a no-passage zone simply by attacking merchant transit lanes with their destroyers, effectively blockading China from much-needed Middle Eastern fuel and African minerals.
And if Putin decides to use tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine or Europe? Pandora’s box is open, baby. Nukes deployed all over the world, mushroom clouds galore. You get cancer, and YOU get cancer, and YOU get cancer, everybody gets cancer.
Even if we see (likely) “act first, let it wind through the courts later,” I’d expect there to be a substantial number of refusals.
I have no doubt this is his first step in ferreting out any military leadership who holds loyalty to the constitution over him personally. Whether this particular plan is blocked or not, it lets him clear out anyone who won’t follow his orders without question going forward.
The US military is actually surprisingly decentralized, with a lot of leeway and authority given directly to NCOs, and officers routinely getting ignored, circumvented, or subjected to malicious compliance if they even order something considered unreasonable, much less illegal. Also see: fragging. Malingering. Mutiny. Desertion. And the worst nightmare - Insider Threat. So much of the military runs purely off of trust, faith, and compliance to words on a page.
You think Don’t Ask Don’t Tell was actually fully complied with? Sentries already fall asleep while at their post, willfully, without needing to have any excuse other than being tired or disliking the watch officer. Roving patrols routinely miss rounds, don’t actually pay attention or inspect anything, and practice what we call “blazing logs”, that is, writing down “all conditions satisfactory” without actually looking at the conditions. Maintenance also gets blazed all the time - technicians just straight up not doing the required maintenance and writing down that they did, substituting unauthorized materials, or half-assing the maintenance. Paperwork just gets “lost”, or never gets signed, never gets filed, never makes it to the intended recipient, just because the admin secretary doesn’t feel like it. Information isn’t entered into a system, including disciplinary or otherwise disqualifying stuff, because the admin or command likes you or needs you.
Purging the upper brass won’t do anything to circumvent or “fix” any of that, it’ll make it worse, because it’ll incentivize the servicemembers to do it even more. The E-4 Mafia will straight up disappear when needed, entire supply chains will stop cold. Separation and disciplinary paperwork will just not get sent.
What does America look like to the world if the most powerful military in the world refuses to follow orders from it’s elected government.
These idiots are going to turn the whole world upside down. Other nations military alliances will shift. China will swoop in to establish stability in it’s region of interest, Taiwan, slowing down our AI race (Biden tried to help get us started on that with the CHIPS act, thanks Brandon). We have a head start on quantum computing research, for now. But Europe is leading on physics and fusion reactors. But science is for nerds, so Europe will lose support from it’s most powerful ally leaving it open to Russia, who isn’t leading in much of anything these days and could really just use a win. First they’ll take the breadbasket because soldiers need to eat. And then continue to disrupt, weaken and push. Maybe start by cutting some major undersea internet cables. That’s got to be difficult to fix again, and again. Israel continues to make itself the enemy of the middle east so, America does what America does, go stomp around it’s old stomping grounds. Shock and Awe Y’all! Don’t worry about those recruitment numbers, they’re just a phase, the poor will still join. China and Russia keep pushing out, taking control of shipping routes and resources, slowly tighten the noose. China is allowed to keep pushing into ‘shithole’ African countries, raping them of their resources. China pushes to AI and Quantum. Russia pushes to Fusion and Physics. Each resource will be dependent on the other. The new world order is in balance.
America dwindles. If we’re lucky AI, or Fusion, will solve climate change before we go Venus.
But wait, up on the hill top! It’s Trump, Donald be his name. He has been crowned God King Emperor of Burgers and Men. Aliens have landed on the Whitehouse lawn. They are… the Whites! Blonde haired and big blue eyes, the most powerful of all aliens in the known galaxy. Their women are red heads, not all of them, but enough to be worth the trouble. Then all true Americans will sing ‘America, Fuck Yeah!’ as they rise up into the glorious heavens above to live with alien Jesus.
🖕🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🖕🏻👽 Peace Among Worlds!
Capable of resisting a rogue government that was put in place by a foreign country? A half-functional democracy that thwarted a Nazi Germany 2.0?
Do we really look cooler on the world stage if we just prove our military are stooges that will ‘just follow orders’?
Then who should world leaders talk to concerning global affairs? The Generals? What countries do we know that are ruled by their militaries? What will the millions of people that elected this monster do? Will they understand, stand back and stand by, and acknowledge the rule of material law? Who should the military pick to rule instead of the elected party? We are fucked. Now he’s up there nominating obvious duds so his next list, the real list, looks like the better choice. The people pulling his strings are setting the stage. Only Alien Jesus can save us now.
The military just needs to say “no.” if ordered to do something unconstitutional, it doesn’t mean they have to enact a military coup.
Your argument technically would apply to Nazi Germany as well, and I really don’t think any of the other countries at the time would’ve looked down upon the Wehrmacht or Germany if they had refused to follow orders, except for Italy and Japan, they would’ve been judging’ hard.
That’s a fair point. I hope that’s all that happens.
Or France, which I remind you has thermonuclear weapons, will start selling said thermonuclear weapons to the rest of the EU, which then enables them to conduct retaliatory strategic strikes on Russia if it invades. Iran immediately develops and deploys thermonuclear weapons (they really only need to put the things together, they have all the parts they need) for strategic or tactical strikes against Israel. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Australia will acquire thermonuclear weapons for self-defense once the US nuclear umbrella is removed - and they have more than enough resources and know-how to just manufacture nuclear weapons from existing materials. India, with a higher population than China and an existing strategic thermonuclear arsenal, can and will turn the entirety of the Indian Ocean into a no-passage zone simply by attacking merchant transit lanes with their destroyers, effectively blockading China from much-needed Middle Eastern fuel and African minerals.
And if Putin decides to use tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine or Europe? Pandora’s box is open, baby. Nukes deployed all over the world, mushroom clouds galore. You get cancer, and YOU get cancer, and YOU get cancer, everybody gets cancer.