Yeah I’m with you on this one. All of these people saying “don’t say shit” think they are being smart (and I imagine most of them haven’t even been in the situation) but the reality is you are just making things worse for everyone else and getting fired after something like that is actually extremely uncommon because it’s very easy to point to and demand severance or just for making a lot of racket if that’s not an option.
It’s very easy to get laid off in the US. They don’t need to resort to such tactics. most of the time internal culture things are either ignored or decent people higher up make some small changes in their own departments/areas specifically. I find it’s a great way to subtly point to toxic leadership, especially if other people are doing it.
The last time I went to HR on toxic leadership it was very well known. I told them I’m the ideal employee. I’ve been here (at the time 10 years) rarely make a fuss. Never been to HR before. I had a well thought out letter explaining the challenges I was seeing and how toxic it was and how it was impacting myself and my coworkers.
They asked for names. I gave none. I told them they have the names (I had good info these people were well known). I explained that people are leaving the org, good people are not coming here. They need to address it. About 1+ year later there was a huge clearout of leadership then another a couple of years later. People who were well identified as toxic.
I like to think my speaking up helped with that, and I’m still here. More people need to stand on their principles damn the consequences.
Yeah it definitely has a “writing your congressional rep“ quality to it. Your one note or comment is rarely going to move the needle unless there is something truly illegal going on like workplace harassment that is undeniable, but when a lot of people keep bringing up the same issues/departments/people (maybe not explicitly) it can make a difference. Sometimes the squeaky wheel does get the oil lol
For those jumping in on this conversation, I am not saying it is always like this. I’m just saying it often is. Most companies operate at least somewhat practically when it comes to these things. They don’t want to hire new people, they don’t want inter-departmental strife. They don’t want projects not getting done because of toxic leadership. Beyond a certain threshold they often will act. Often it takes way too long and requires way too much from employees, but still, sometimes they act.
Yeah I’m with you on this one. All of these people saying “don’t say shit” think they are being smart (and I imagine most of them haven’t even been in the situation) but the reality is you are just making things worse for everyone else and getting fired after something like that is actually extremely uncommon because it’s very easy to point to and demand severance or just for making a lot of racket if that’s not an option.
It’s very easy to get laid off in the US. They don’t need to resort to such tactics. most of the time internal culture things are either ignored or decent people higher up make some small changes in their own departments/areas specifically. I find it’s a great way to subtly point to toxic leadership, especially if other people are doing it.
The last time I went to HR on toxic leadership it was very well known. I told them I’m the ideal employee. I’ve been here (at the time 10 years) rarely make a fuss. Never been to HR before. I had a well thought out letter explaining the challenges I was seeing and how toxic it was and how it was impacting myself and my coworkers.
They asked for names. I gave none. I told them they have the names (I had good info these people were well known). I explained that people are leaving the org, good people are not coming here. They need to address it. About 1+ year later there was a huge clearout of leadership then another a couple of years later. People who were well identified as toxic.
I like to think my speaking up helped with that, and I’m still here. More people need to stand on their principles damn the consequences.
Yeah it definitely has a “writing your congressional rep“ quality to it. Your one note or comment is rarely going to move the needle unless there is something truly illegal going on like workplace harassment that is undeniable, but when a lot of people keep bringing up the same issues/departments/people (maybe not explicitly) it can make a difference. Sometimes the squeaky wheel does get the oil lol
For those jumping in on this conversation, I am not saying it is always like this. I’m just saying it often is. Most companies operate at least somewhat practically when it comes to these things. They don’t want to hire new people, they don’t want inter-departmental strife. They don’t want projects not getting done because of toxic leadership. Beyond a certain threshold they often will act. Often it takes way too long and requires way too much from employees, but still, sometimes they act.
YMMV especially depending on the industry.