Imagine not being able to tell the difference between “I don’t believe half of their users are trans” and “I don’t believe in their users being trans”.
Demographics isn’t transphobic. Using trans people as a shield from criticism is.
EDIT: I looked over the October survey. The graphs aren’t the cleanest but the data is there: 15% of all asked identified as trans, with another 9% as trans non-binary. A sample size of 600 to the 2300 monthly users is also really good, so the data ought to be very representative.
This is part of why the hard left, or at least the current version of it, has basically lost me. I firmly support the right of trans and queer folks to exist in the same relative peace and safety as everyone else, but in todays lefty political spaces you’re not allowed to disagree with what a trans person says without being transphobic. You can’t criticize a trans person for their shit takes or bad behavior without being transphobic. I even had a years long friendship end because raising the issue of a clear mental health episode involving paranoid delusion unrelated to their transition or transness made me a “dangerous transphobe”. This person had of course been hospitalized for self harm and major mental heath issues prior, and a desire to keep them safe was “transphobic”
Transphobia is bad. Trans exceptionalism is also bad.
Yeah I feel you. I have had two memorable interactions with trans people who tried to say I was being transphobic for made up reasons. The most recent person went through my moderation history and found a comment I made which supposedly was homophobic. It was a comment roughly saying “trump is sucking off Putin” which was removed for “incivility”. This of course proved that I am a hateful bigot and only wanted to disagree with the trans person due to who they are. Which btw was not something I had a fucking clue about until they called it out.
Lots of leftists and even leftist groups/spaces acknowledge and criticize the bigotry of lowered expectations. Sometimes called the soft bigotry of lowered expectations. It’s when you cut members of marginalized groups more slack simply because they’re marginalized. Whether someone means it or not, it perpetuates that someone is less smart, less capable, simply because they’re (gender)queer, a POC, disabled, etc. What you’re describing fits the bill.
I’m part of leftist groups that call it out for the bigotry it is, and I hope you can find a leftist group that does, too. They do exist. Or maybe otherwise, you can read a little about the bigotry of lowered expectations and bring it up for discussion with groups that are unknowingly guilty of it. Maybe they can learn from you.
I appreciate this. Thanks. Honestly the other reason I’m not organizing much these days is because I’m busy making my material conditions better. Also being in a union feels like a praxis of its own, with surprisingly less bullshit than other forms of organizing. Who knows, maybe the next four years will see me back in it.
I feel for both you and your friend. Over the last while with trans stuff being in the news so much it does feel like being constantly under fire with a lot of hope for things getting better like they were even five years ago going by the wayside. I have a friend who has struggled with BPD on top of being trans and it has been kind of hard telling her that she actually is being a little too sensitive and assuming way more hostility than she’s actually receiving from people in her life by “mind reading” intentions that are not there.
As one of the few other trans people in her life it’s really hard being her reality check. When we queer folk have community we do a better job of keeping each other grounded and advocating for the general intentions of cis family, friends and romantic partners and give them grace to be imperfect allies. We can acknowledge when things suck because of a lack of understanding or because someone is still hurting us despite not wanting to… But that’s not always based out of transphobia. The world is imperfect and sometimes that means we don’t always have our cake and eat it too.
Trans, or LGBT issues in general are used as argumentative shibboleths and rallying points.
In reality, these are non-issues that shouldn’t really concern anyone except those directly affected by them. But the extremists on both sides chose to make them front and center for literally any discussion.
It’s a culture war fueled by a bunch of narcissistic idiots and financed by ghouls who love to see the plebs destroy itself.
Leftists aren’t a monolith. There’s anarchists, democratic socialists, state capitalists and authoritarian leftists (both are social democrats without the democracy part) and more. I don’t think it’s fair to abandon an ideology because a similiar ideologies followers are stupid, or insane.
And left/right is disconnected from cultural progressivism/conservatism (tho they heavily correlate) there are conservative socialists and progressive conservatives. There’s even this god forsaken abomination of an ideology.
It’s your choice, though. If you don’t want to be a leftist, then that’s fine.
Don’t worry, my ideology is cemented. I’m not a kid experimenting with political thought, Ive been at it for decades. I’m just saying I don’t mesh well with the modern left because gender identity politics have co-opted all of those ideologies to their core. I know exactly what my political ideology is, it just lives in hermitage now.
What you’re referring to is quite frustrating, I agree. Even more concerning is that it’s such an obvious vector for foreign actors to leverage in an attempt to weaken the geopolitical dominance of the Western world.
If Russia and China aren’t running psyops and trying to exacerbate the obvious political divide within western nations by utilizing transgender ideology as a wedge topic, they’re not even trying. It’s just such an obvious vulnerability that it beggars belief to think they wouldn’t be trying to fan those flames as much as possible.
I agree wholeheartedly. I firmly believe that there are a lot of young people suddenly realizing they’re trans, that likely wouldn’t be if not for sophisticated and well funded psychological warfare operations by rival nation states.
This is not a reason to turn our backs on vulnerable trans folks. They deserve the right to be safe and heard. But we also need to address the fact that somehow this tiny minority simply existing has driven national political dialogues right off the fucking rails. And for what? The left and right going to war over this hyper-niche issue does nothing but further endanger trans folks and prevent meaningful discourse on far more relevant topics.
So you agree trans people are vulnerable and taken advantage of in the media and general political discourse but the “leftys” lost you cause you talked to some people you didn’t like? I don’t know about you but I’d rather be on the side of an annoying trans person than the side of another old racist with lead poisoning who plays the victim card when people don’t like them.
Please look at my very comprehensive “intro to leftism” reading list which is entirely comprised of ML essays and makes no attempt at contextualizing these works within broader leftist philosophy.
Alright thanks good to know. Thank you for taking such action. I have rarely seen someone acting so innocent yet at the same time being so disingenuous.
Oh, they can tell the difference. It’s just that their whole mentality is attuned to seizing on some trivial bullshit, deliberately misunderstanding it into some wild kind of caricature, and then lecturing the “opponent” about how they’re wrong about everything.
Imagine not being able to tell the difference between “I don’t believe half of their users are trans” and “I don’t believe in their users being trans”.
Demographics isn’t transphobic. Using trans people as a shield from criticism is.
EDIT: I looked over the October survey. The graphs aren’t the cleanest but the data is there: 15% of all asked identified as trans, with another 9% as trans non-binary. A sample size of 600 to the 2300 monthly users is also really good, so the data ought to be very representative.
This is part of why the hard left, or at least the current version of it, has basically lost me. I firmly support the right of trans and queer folks to exist in the same relative peace and safety as everyone else, but in todays lefty political spaces you’re not allowed to disagree with what a trans person says without being transphobic. You can’t criticize a trans person for their shit takes or bad behavior without being transphobic. I even had a years long friendship end because raising the issue of a clear mental health episode involving paranoid delusion unrelated to their transition or transness made me a “dangerous transphobe”. This person had of course been hospitalized for self harm and major mental heath issues prior, and a desire to keep them safe was “transphobic”
Transphobia is bad. Trans exceptionalism is also bad.
Yeah I feel you. I have had two memorable interactions with trans people who tried to say I was being transphobic for made up reasons. The most recent person went through my moderation history and found a comment I made which supposedly was homophobic. It was a comment roughly saying “trump is sucking off Putin” which was removed for “incivility”. This of course proved that I am a hateful bigot and only wanted to disagree with the trans person due to who they are. Which btw was not something I had a fucking clue about until they called it out.
Lots of leftists and even leftist groups/spaces acknowledge and criticize the bigotry of lowered expectations. Sometimes called the soft bigotry of lowered expectations. It’s when you cut members of marginalized groups more slack simply because they’re marginalized. Whether someone means it or not, it perpetuates that someone is less smart, less capable, simply because they’re (gender)queer, a POC, disabled, etc. What you’re describing fits the bill.
I’m part of leftist groups that call it out for the bigotry it is, and I hope you can find a leftist group that does, too. They do exist. Or maybe otherwise, you can read a little about the bigotry of lowered expectations and bring it up for discussion with groups that are unknowingly guilty of it. Maybe they can learn from you.
I appreciate this. Thanks. Honestly the other reason I’m not organizing much these days is because I’m busy making my material conditions better. Also being in a union feels like a praxis of its own, with surprisingly less bullshit than other forms of organizing. Who knows, maybe the next four years will see me back in it.
I feel for both you and your friend. Over the last while with trans stuff being in the news so much it does feel like being constantly under fire with a lot of hope for things getting better like they were even five years ago going by the wayside. I have a friend who has struggled with BPD on top of being trans and it has been kind of hard telling her that she actually is being a little too sensitive and assuming way more hostility than she’s actually receiving from people in her life by “mind reading” intentions that are not there.
As one of the few other trans people in her life it’s really hard being her reality check. When we queer folk have community we do a better job of keeping each other grounded and advocating for the general intentions of cis family, friends and romantic partners and give them grace to be imperfect allies. We can acknowledge when things suck because of a lack of understanding or because someone is still hurting us despite not wanting to… But that’s not always based out of transphobia. The world is imperfect and sometimes that means we don’t always have our cake and eat it too.
The kind of self awareness you’re showing is something we could all benefit from.
Trans, or LGBT issues in general are used as argumentative shibboleths and rallying points.
In reality, these are non-issues that shouldn’t really concern anyone except those directly affected by them. But the extremists on both sides chose to make them front and center for literally any discussion.
It’s a culture war fueled by a bunch of narcissistic idiots and financed by ghouls who love to see the plebs destroy itself.
Leftists aren’t a monolith. There’s anarchists, democratic socialists, state capitalists and authoritarian leftists (both are social democrats without the democracy part) and more. I don’t think it’s fair to abandon an ideology because a similiar ideologies followers are stupid, or insane.
And left/right is disconnected from cultural progressivism/conservatism (tho they heavily correlate) there are conservative socialists and progressive conservatives. There’s even this god forsaken abomination of an ideology.
It’s your choice, though. If you don’t want to be a leftist, then that’s fine.
Don’t worry, my ideology is cemented. I’m not a kid experimenting with political thought, Ive been at it for decades. I’m just saying I don’t mesh well with the modern left because gender identity politics have co-opted all of those ideologies to their core. I know exactly what my political ideology is, it just lives in hermitage now.
What you’re referring to is quite frustrating, I agree. Even more concerning is that it’s such an obvious vector for foreign actors to leverage in an attempt to weaken the geopolitical dominance of the Western world.
If Russia and China aren’t running psyops and trying to exacerbate the obvious political divide within western nations by utilizing transgender ideology as a wedge topic, they’re not even trying. It’s just such an obvious vulnerability that it beggars belief to think they wouldn’t be trying to fan those flames as much as possible.
I agree wholeheartedly. I firmly believe that there are a lot of young people suddenly realizing they’re trans, that likely wouldn’t be if not for sophisticated and well funded psychological warfare operations by rival nation states.
This is not a reason to turn our backs on vulnerable trans folks. They deserve the right to be safe and heard. But we also need to address the fact that somehow this tiny minority simply existing has driven national political dialogues right off the fucking rails. And for what? The left and right going to war over this hyper-niche issue does nothing but further endanger trans folks and prevent meaningful discourse on far more relevant topics.
So you agree trans people are vulnerable and taken advantage of in the media and general political discourse but the “leftys” lost you cause you talked to some people you didn’t like? I don’t know about you but I’d rather be on the side of an annoying trans person than the side of another old racist with lead poisoning who plays the victim card when people don’t like them.
“You find something about modern leftism annoying so you must be a trumper now”
No. Congrats on being the first person in this thread to look like a complete ass.
Thanks for bringing this up, Cowbee has been banned.
That guy is so annoying with his faux-neutrality/naivety. What a phony, good riddance.
Please look at my very comprehensive “intro to leftism” reading list which is entirely comprised of ML essays and makes no attempt at contextualizing these works within broader leftist philosophy.
Haha indeed, spot on
Wait where has he been banned from? discuss.tchncs.de or here?
From [email protected]
Alright thanks good to know. Thank you for taking such action. I have rarely seen someone acting so innocent yet at the same time being so disingenuous.
Oh, they can tell the difference. It’s just that their whole mentality is attuned to seizing on some trivial bullshit, deliberately misunderstanding it into some wild kind of caricature, and then lecturing the “opponent” about how they’re wrong about everything.
This is a perfect way to sum up the same thoughts I’ve had about people who do that shit.
I wonder where those demographics came from.