I’m a tech interested guy. I’ve touched SQL once or twice, but wasn’t able to really make sense of it. That combined with not having a practical use leaves SQL as largely a black box in my mind (though I am somewhat familiar with technical concepts in databasing).

With that, I keep seeing [pic related] as proof that Elon Musk doesn’t understand SQL.

Can someone give me a technical explanation for how one would come to that conclusion? I’d love if you could pass technical documentation for that.

  • Hawk@lemmynsfw.com
    43·
    17 hours ago

    Its because the comments he made are inconsistent with common conventions in data engineering.

    1. It is very common not to deduplicate data and instead just append rows, The current value is the most recent and all the old ones are simply historical. That way you don’t risk losing data and you have an entire history.
      • whilst you could do some trickery to deduplicate the data it does create more complexity. There’s an old saying with ZFS: “Friends don’t let friends dedupe” And it’s much the same here.
      • compression is usually good enough. It will catch duplicated data and deal with it in a fairly efficient way, not as efficient as deduplication but it’s probably fine and it’s definitely a lot simpler
    2. Claiming the government does not use SQL
      • It’s possible they have rolled their own solution or they are using MongoDB Or something but this would be unlikely and wouldn’t really refute the initial claim
      • I believe many other commenters noted that it probably is MySQL anyway.

    Basically what he said is incoherent inconsistent with typical practices among data engineers to anybody who has worked with larger data.

    In terms of using SQL, it’s basically just a more reliable and better Excel that doesn’t come with a default GUI.

    If you need to store data, It’s almost always best throw it into a SQLite database Because it keeps it structured. It’s standardised and it can be used from any programming language.

    However, many people use excel because they don’t have experience with programming languages.

    Get chatGpt to help you write a PyQT GUI for a SQLite database and I think you would develop a high level understanding for how the pieces fit together

    Edit: @zalgotext made a good point.

    • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
      15·
      18 hours ago

      Great explanation, but I have a tiny, tiny, minor nit-pick

      Basically what he said is incoherent to anybody who has worked with larger data.

      I’m being pedantic, but I disagree with your wording. As a backend dev, I work with relational databases a ton, and what Musk said wasn’t incomprehensible to me, it just sounded like something a first year engineer fresh out of college would say.

      Again, the rest of your explanation is spot on, absolutely no notes, but I do think the distinction between “adult making up incomprehensible bullshit” and “adult cosplaying as a baby engineer who thinks he’s hot shit but doesn’t know anything beyond surface level stuff” is important.

    • turtle [he/him]@lemm.eeEnglish
      4·
      17 hours ago

      There’s an old saying with ZFS: “Friends don’t let friends dedupe”

      That’s a bad example to reference. The ZFS implementation of deduplication is poorly thought out, and I say that even though I like and run ZFS on my own Linux server(s). I understand that the BTRFS implementation of dedupe works well (no first-hand experience), and the Windows one works great (first-hand experience).

      • Hawk@lemmynsfw.com
        1·
        14 hours ago

        I’ve had a poor experience with btrfs dedupe tbh (and a terrible experience with qgroups), however, this was years ago. Btrfs snapshots I prefer though, much easier not to have that dependence.

        What distro are you using for ZFS, void?

    • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
      322·
      20 hours ago

      It was a great answer until the very last sentence. ChatGPT is never a reference for anything ever if you have any fraction of a brain.

      • Lemminary@lemmy.world
        192·
        20 hours ago

        I have a fraction of a brain, I think, and use ChatGPT as a guide so that I have something to start with. Even if it’s slightly off, my two brain cells can pick it out and go from there. It’s not so bad.

        And you know, I get it if you don’t like AI, but let’s be honest about it at the very least.

          • Lemminary@lemmy.world
            71·
            19 hours ago

            I mostly ask it things I don’t know, though. I’m not exporting my thinking to it.

            I ask it difficult translations, how to code something I’m unfamiliar with, help with grammar, i use it as an OCR for other languages, to help me remember things I can’t directly search, etc. I have a hard time believing all use is detrimental, especially when you’re filling in the gaps of your knowledge and a best guess will do. It’s surely better than a web search for things you don’t even know how to write in a search box.

            • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
              514·
              19 hours ago

              I mostly ask it things I don’t know, though. I’m not exporting my thinking to it.

              Exhibit A

              • Lemminary@lemmy.world
                51·
                10 hours ago

                Which are then obviously confirmed with a web search. Jesus, spare me the cynicism.

                And I’m just going to say this as a general observation, but the user base of the fediverse is pretty sophisticated at this time to be assuming shit like this. You make this place hostile by not giving the benefit of the doubt, you know. And even then. How hard is it to not think the worst of everyone you come across online? So ridiculous and petty.

      • Hawk@lemmynsfw.com
        42·
        19 hours ago

        I disagree, it’s just a tool. It’s a fantastic way to template applications very quickly, particularly for those who are not already familiar with technologies and may not have the time or opportunity to play around with things otherwise.

        Llm is not a search engine and it can produce awful code. This is not production code, it’s for tinkering. As a sandbox tool, LLMs are fantastic.

        On the ethical side of things, yeah openAI sucks, Qwen2.5 would be up to this task, one can run that locally.

        • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
          55·
          19 hours ago

          It’s a disinformation machine which completely lacks all context. If it’s about 85% accurate to average internet denizens and 15% halucination, then it’s an absolutely atrocious source to learn from. You’re literally lying to yourself, that is what the tool does.

          • Hawk@lemmynsfw.com
            42·
            17 hours ago

            Well Ive ad a great time using LLMs to sandbox a dozen implementations and then investigate the shortcoming and advantages of different implementations.

            Mistakes happen a lot but they can be managed on a small MWE with a couple of tests.

            It’s how the tool is used more than any given tool being bad.

            I understand your point and you’re not wrong. However, I’m not wrong either and you should take a second look at how you might use these tools in a way that makes your life easier and addresses the valid limitations you’ve described.