A recent event led me to fact check something that I thought must be untrue, which is that Ukraine conscripts people into the military against their will, including making those people that had previously fulfilled their obligations return to the battlefield.
Moreso, when browsing X recently I saw bunch of videos being posted of what claimed were police forcing people into vans to go fight in Ukraine. The police were beating these people in the process. Now, it is possible that some of this content is propaganda, but I did want to find out if Ukraine forces conscription.
It appears that it is true:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Ukraine
I am very much against conscription. I still support Ukraine’s independence, but the fact that they are forcing people to fight through beatings, arrests, etc. is sickening to me and makes me lose respect for Zelensky. According to an estimate by Ukrainian commanders, 50% to 70% of Ukrainian conscripts are killed or wounded in their first few days in combat on some areas of the front.
What are others thoughts on this?
There have been over a million conscripts in Ukraine afaik. They haven’t even hit 50k deaths TOTAL (including civilians might make it just above that).
Most? Stop with the disinformation. It would be one thing if the number was close but it isn’t.
I’m pretty sure we don’t actually know the number of deaths, but also, I’m not trying to argue that they actually do die at a rate of 50% and you’re making a mountain out of a mole hill. My point is that the survival of conscripts doesn’t matter and so the question becomes “whose survival matters?” Like I said, I can’t say for sure that they mostly die. But they sure as fuck die.
What are you basing the statement that their survival doesnt matter on? They are soldiers that are inevitably needed in a war, but the countries survival depends on their success in the war which is kind of equivalent to the survival of as many of them as possible.
To me it seems Ukraine can choose between not having enough troops and inevitably losing the war and their country, or sending in conscripts (of which a certain percentage will die) and having a chance of fighting back.
It does seem cruel that some are forced to die (or risk dying) for the survival of the masses, but would it be better if all citizens were forced equally, women and children included? What would be the alternative? Relying on volunteers alone doesnt seem enough, so should they abandon their country?
They don’t want to die and are being marched to their deaths? They’re conscripts.
If people want to abandon the country, fucking let them.
That would be an option. Abandon your citizenship and the right to ever obtain it again and youre free to go.
On the other hand, you benefitted from the country until that point and abandoning it when it needs you the most seems kind of unfair. Countries dont revoke your citizenship when they dont need you anymore, like for criminals or homeless people, it goes both ways. I dont think there is an obvious solution, in a war everyone loses.
The obvious solution is to not conscript people to die in a war they don’t support.
If you want people to be conscripted so much, you should be snatched off the streets and forced to fight and die for them.
Noone in Ukraine supports the war. That doesnt save Ukraine from being attacked.
I never said I support conscription, Im just saying without it Ukraine would have already lost the war and their country.
You might not have said you support conscription but you’re arguing pretty hard for it. How about you clear things up! Are you pro-conscription?
Im not and I dont think Ive argued for it. I tried looking at it from multiple angles, thats not the same.