Thousands of subreddits chose to go dark in an ongoing protest over the company's plan to start charging certain third-party developers to access the site’s data.
Wow. Front page of huffpost.com right now. Interesting…
Huffman totally doesn’t get that the conflict isn’t about Reddit wanting to charge for API access. That in and of itself is fine.
It’s how they’re going about it, starting with “We’re going to start charging you in a month, and just five months ago we said we weren’t going to be charging anything for the foreseeable future,” followed immediately by Huffman being a human-shaped turd very loudly at every chance.
Even if they just came out and said “we don’t want third party apps like Apollo anymore, we want one Reddit experience” it would have been at least honest. There would still be an uproar but not ugly like this.
Instead everything Steve has done has been duplicitous and in bad faith. Then he drops that memo and pokes the bear, does a couple rounds of interviews going “I’m so strong, mods are spoiled, I’m like daddy Elon, make me rich”.
I genuinely don’t know what he thinks he’s going to get out of this. He should have just sat this out quietly and let subs go dark until they got bored and alternatives formed and the system fixed itself.
Side note: I’ve been disgusted watching redditors lick his boots and hate on the mods. In 13 years of using Reddit I only ever got banned from /r/conservative, so I don’t get all these people complaining about power tripping mods. That got me to delete all my accounts.
The part of the memo where Steve talks about wearing Reddit swag out on town really hit. Like, we love Reddit, but hate you, not your employees. Why would users want to harm Reddit employees?
I mean, it’s not unfathomable, but it wasn’t imperative to mention it as it only serves to stoke fear among his employees and tries to frame this as an “us against them” thing.
I’m still bitter about a great post I made, which had a great discussion going, being removed on r/fitness for some obscure BS, just inane illogical reason. The mods in that sub were notoriously terrible, and is why there were a bunch of spinoff subs.
@soft_frog I was a mod on Reddit for a bit. As far as bans go, permabans were rare. There were a few people, however, that I or another mod banned that would play this “I was just joking” or “all I said was x and they banned me” game, but we would use a mod tag on these people so we quickly remember why we banned them. And it’s like dude, you told the dev who’s promoting their game to kill themselves.
There are some shitty people out there, and mods have to clean up their shit (hopefully before anyone else sees) so the users have a good experience in our community.
Yeah, there are some bad mods out there too, but it’s the ones that care that are going to have to work double time without these third party tools, and the site is going to lose some of those with this change.
They totally exist, but the community tends to build around them when it’s bad.
Someone posted https://subredditstats.com/ and it became so clear how reddit had changed in the last 3 years. All my subs have expanded 3-5x in size, and over that same period the quality declined a lot.
Oh there are plenty of shitty mods on certain subreddits, but the biggest issue is that often the community doesn’t realize it. Some person gets banned for some stupid reason, the community doesn’t know. That’s one of the biggest issues with community moderation especially on Reddit: it is entirely too easy for moderators to act invisibly and absolutely no one would be any the wiser because the only person that could point out the abuse of power can no longer post.
And frankly, reddit shielded the_donald when they were openly breaking the rules about vote manipulation in such a huge way that they dominated /r/all.
The mods for r/guitar were (are?) pretty bad. The guys at r/guitarcirclejerk made a sport of seeing how stupid a post they could post on r/guitar without getting banned. Of course, actual noobs with stupid noob questions sometimes ended up getting banned for trolling, so they’d end up at r/guitars asking wtf.
It was kinda funny, kinda tragic. Dunno if it’s still there.
The rise of circlejerk communities was the beginning of the end, their only purpose was to harass members of a community and create a gathering place for trolls.
I disagree. I keep seeing people saying this, but it is giving them far too much credit. It doesn’t matter if the pricing was reasonable or if they had a good long time to prepare for it.
All of this talk about the pricing is completely irrelevant. What’s relevant is the impetus behind it. This is just a weapon Reddit is using to kill 3rd party apps. That’s it. That is what they want to do, that is what they are doing. Don’t let that get confused in a bunch of talk about pricing and deadlines, it doesn’t really have anything to do with what’s happening here
He comes across like an entitled child who has made up his mind and is too stubborn to admit when he’s wrong. Add onto that the fact that he bullies people with his lies and manipulation. Very much not an adult, let alone a CEO.
I remember reading a comment that said they half expected this to be a ‘Door in the Face’ technique (or a different one with a different name, can’t recall) wherein Reddit was being a clever sales person by starting high and then going low, because the true goal was to just introduce a pricing plan to begin with. If they had just started with a pricing plan, there’d be pushback and they might have to rescind it, but if they started with something ridiculous and then walked it back/lowered it to something reasonable (their goal the entire time), they could save face and say “hey Reddit we heard you loud and clear and you’re right!” and Reddit could go “We did it Reddit!” - I thought that seemed very plausible at the time.
Then I thought maybe it was just Hanlon’s Razor. They were just being stupid. Turns out it was a little of both malice and stupidity.
I genuinely think that ending up with a lower price as an appeasement was part of the initial plan. I think at some point, maybe too many people pointed that out for it to feel like a good plan anymore, or maybe spez started taking it personally and decided to take it off the table.
I’m about 50/50 now on whether they’re just sticking to be being stupid/spiteful or if they’ve maybe just decided to remarket reddit completely as an LLM training model. If it’s just a training model, who cares if the community isn’t happy, that doesn’t matter so much in the short term. They can prop up abandoned communities and limp along, hell even the corporate marketing & propaganda accounts talking amongst themselves might have enough value to keep things going until they IPO. Spez just has to make a plan to cash out ASAP.
I doubt they have the talent to make an LLM. But just in case, instead of deleting your comments before deleting your user, replace them with some choice words about Huffman ruining the value of the site via poor leadership.
Perturb each comment with random one letter errors. This way any LLM will learn to tell everyone about Huffmans poor performance. Even better, it’ll be harder to bulk remove the comments with the errors in them. Especially if there are many rephrasings on top.
it would have been SO easy for them to make their API changes the way that it’s typically done - with ample warning time and semi-reasonable prices. the only obvious explanation is that they really don’t want third party apps and this was their way to shut them down without saying it explicitly.
Huffman totally doesn’t get that the conflict isn’t about Reddit wanting to charge for API access. That in and of itself is fine.
It’s how they’re going about it, starting with “We’re going to start charging you in a month, and just five months ago we said we weren’t going to be charging anything for the foreseeable future,” followed immediately by Huffman being a human-shaped turd very loudly at every chance.
Even if they just came out and said “we don’t want third party apps like Apollo anymore, we want one Reddit experience” it would have been at least honest. There would still be an uproar but not ugly like this.
Instead everything Steve has done has been duplicitous and in bad faith. Then he drops that memo and pokes the bear, does a couple rounds of interviews going “I’m so strong, mods are spoiled, I’m like daddy Elon, make me rich”.
I genuinely don’t know what he thinks he’s going to get out of this. He should have just sat this out quietly and let subs go dark until they got bored and alternatives formed and the system fixed itself.
Side note: I’ve been disgusted watching redditors lick his boots and hate on the mods. In 13 years of using Reddit I only ever got banned from /r/conservative, so I don’t get all these people complaining about power tripping mods. That got me to delete all my accounts.
The part of the memo where Steve talks about wearing Reddit swag out on town really hit. Like, we love Reddit, but hate you, not your employees. Why would users want to harm Reddit employees?
I mean, it’s not unfathomable, but it wasn’t imperative to mention it as it only serves to stoke fear among his employees and tries to frame this as an “us against them” thing.
Realistically, because some people are dumb. It’s the same reason people harass actors for playing characters they don’t like.
I’m still bitter about a great post I made, which had a great discussion going, being removed on r/fitness for some obscure BS, just inane illogical reason. The mods in that sub were notoriously terrible, and is why there were a bunch of spinoff subs.
@soft_frog I was a mod on Reddit for a bit. As far as bans go, permabans were rare. There were a few people, however, that I or another mod banned that would play this “I was just joking” or “all I said was x and they banned me” game, but we would use a mod tag on these people so we quickly remember why we banned them. And it’s like dude, you told the dev who’s promoting their game to kill themselves.
There are some shitty people out there, and mods have to clean up their shit (hopefully before anyone else sees) so the users have a good experience in our community.
Yeah, there are some bad mods out there too, but it’s the ones that care that are going to have to work double time without these third party tools, and the site is going to lose some of those with this change.
Only outright corrupt mods I ever experienced wad Amos on the conspiracy sub, and the mod of r/pitbullhate.
They totally exist, but the community tends to build around them when it’s bad.
Someone posted https://subredditstats.com/ and it became so clear how reddit had changed in the last 3 years. All my subs have expanded 3-5x in size, and over that same period the quality declined a lot.
Oh there are plenty of shitty mods on certain subreddits, but the biggest issue is that often the community doesn’t realize it. Some person gets banned for some stupid reason, the community doesn’t know. That’s one of the biggest issues with community moderation especially on Reddit: it is entirely too easy for moderators to act invisibly and absolutely no one would be any the wiser because the only person that could point out the abuse of power can no longer post.
The_donald had pretty heinous mods.
Some pretty heinous members too as I recall.
Yeah I mean it was pretty much the whole community but the mods existed to shield their worst members.
And frankly, reddit shielded the_donald when they were openly breaking the rules about vote manipulation in such a huge way that they dominated /r/all.
Seems to me a simple fix for that would be, he more the mods abuse the ban hammer, the shorter he bans are. Problem solves itself.
Explanation for the bootlicking: -some astroturfing accounts -lot of critical ppl already left reddit, and the compliant remained
The mods for r/guitar were (are?) pretty bad. The guys at r/guitarcirclejerk made a sport of seeing how stupid a post they could post on r/guitar without getting banned. Of course, actual noobs with stupid noob questions sometimes ended up getting banned for trolling, so they’d end up at r/guitars asking wtf.
It was kinda funny, kinda tragic. Dunno if it’s still there.
The rise of circlejerk communities was the beginning of the end, their only purpose was to harass members of a community and create a gathering place for trolls.
I disagree. I keep seeing people saying this, but it is giving them far too much credit. It doesn’t matter if the pricing was reasonable or if they had a good long time to prepare for it.
All of this talk about the pricing is completely irrelevant. What’s relevant is the impetus behind it. This is just a weapon Reddit is using to kill 3rd party apps. That’s it. That is what they want to do, that is what they are doing. Don’t let that get confused in a bunch of talk about pricing and deadlines, it doesn’t really have anything to do with what’s happening here
He comes across like an entitled child who has made up his mind and is too stubborn to admit when he’s wrong. Add onto that the fact that he bullies people with his lies and manipulation. Very much not an adult, let alone a CEO.
I remember reading a comment that said they half expected this to be a ‘Door in the Face’ technique (or a different one with a different name, can’t recall) wherein Reddit was being a clever sales person by starting high and then going low, because the true goal was to just introduce a pricing plan to begin with. If they had just started with a pricing plan, there’d be pushback and they might have to rescind it, but if they started with something ridiculous and then walked it back/lowered it to something reasonable (their goal the entire time), they could save face and say “hey Reddit we heard you loud and clear and you’re right!” and Reddit could go “We did it Reddit!” - I thought that seemed very plausible at the time.
Then I thought maybe it was just Hanlon’s Razor. They were just being stupid. Turns out it was a little of both malice and stupidity.
I genuinely think that ending up with a lower price as an appeasement was part of the initial plan. I think at some point, maybe too many people pointed that out for it to feel like a good plan anymore, or maybe spez started taking it personally and decided to take it off the table.
I’m about 50/50 now on whether they’re just sticking to be being stupid/spiteful or if they’ve maybe just decided to remarket reddit completely as an LLM training model. If it’s just a training model, who cares if the community isn’t happy, that doesn’t matter so much in the short term. They can prop up abandoned communities and limp along, hell even the corporate marketing & propaganda accounts talking amongst themselves might have enough value to keep things going until they IPO. Spez just has to make a plan to cash out ASAP.
I’ve said elsewhere: Huffman is a turd, was a turd, and will be a turd. The fact that he’s CEO tells you what reddit as a company wants: turds.
I doubt they have the talent to make an LLM. But just in case, instead of deleting your comments before deleting your user, replace them with some choice words about Huffman ruining the value of the site via poor leadership.
Perturb each comment with random one letter errors. This way any LLM will learn to tell everyone about Huffmans poor performance. Even better, it’ll be harder to bulk remove the comments with the errors in them. Especially if there are many rephrasings on top.
Anchoring Effect is the term you’re looking for. Now we just wish it was actually that.
it would have been SO easy for them to make their API changes the way that it’s typically done - with ample warning time and semi-reasonable prices. the only obvious explanation is that they really don’t want third party apps and this was their way to shut them down without saying it explicitly.
https://youtu.be/W87Tmvu7iz8