• Th4tGuyII@kbin.social
    691·
    1 year ago

    At the risk of sounding bigoted, what are he/him lesbians? And why isn’t that just being gay?

    • halvo317@sh.itjust.works
      454·
      1 year ago

      You’re thinking that it’s AMAB female-identifying lesbians. There’s AFAB lesbians that prefer he/him pronouns, but prefer the butch/femme lesbian experience. Or a combination or other stuff too.

      • Throwaway@lemm.ee
        5411·
        1 year ago

        Man, I never understood the need to microlabel yourself. Just seems weird.

        • kadu@lemmy.world
          472·
          1 year ago

          This is (usually) the result of years of not being to openly label yourself, hiding who you are, and feeling alone and not part of a broader community.

          Just like a compressed spring will then expand after being let go before returning to a more balanced state, when society slowly gave queer people the space to at least exist openly, people started looking really deeply at “who they are” and “what communities do I belong to” and “how do I find what I want in a sea of diversity” which in turn gave rise to surprisingly specific microlabeling.

          The tendency is for this to tone down, with broader categories. But who knows, we can’t really predict language and societal change like that.

          • shneancy@lemmy.world
            7·
            1 year ago

            I saw that in myself actually. I used to look for a very specific label to describe myself with, now I just go with “mostly man I guess”

          • uranibaba@lemmy.world
            51·
            1 year ago

            That would explain why hbt -> hbtq -> htbqi -> hbtqi+ (and probably more that I don’t know about).

            I was very confused when this started early on, when trying to do right and using the correct label/word, just to learn there was a new letter to the acronym.

          • aidan@lemmy.world
            110·
            1 year ago

            Labeling yourself is not being who you are. And, gender nor sexuality are a community.

        • stebo02@sopuli.xyz
          103·
          1 year ago

          I never understood the need to label yourself at all but I mean if it helps that’s great I guess

              • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
                11·
                1 year ago

                Stop making such a big fuss about this. You want to feel a woman? Fine. You want to become a trans man or woman? Fine. You wan to feel like a dragon or (yes) an attack helicopter? All fine, great! So what you want, it’s your life.

                But for the love of god, stop bugging other people about it. This entire gender and pronoun thing has gone way off the rails. pronouns is a non issue, no-one cares. There are hundreds of actual important issues at hand, try and focus on those?

            • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
              114·
              1 year ago

              yes, since roughly 1850-1910 depending on your country or state people have been assigned a gender at birth. As it’s a relatively new thing (from the perspective of the last ~2 million years of humans existing), there has been a movement since those early years, to allow people to change it.

              • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
                1·
                1 year ago

                Yeaaahh, and for those people living in the real-world, that gender is not assigned, it’s literally what you are. If you later in life feel like you’re not, that’s fine, switch, or not, it’s your life, live it, love it.

                Either which way: at birth, barring some extreme exceptions, every one has just a penis or a vagina and as such is a boy or a girl.

                Bothi wrong with that, and nothing that should be abolished because I don’t like to abolish reality

      • TheLowestStone@lemmy.world
        21·
        1 year ago

        In your example, is the distinction that you used the word “prefer” for pronouns? So the hypothetical couple are both AFAB and identify as homosexual women but enjoy being called by male pronouns?

        No hate intended, just trying to educate myself.

      • Th4tGuyII@kbin.social
        51·
        1 year ago

        No, I was thinking the latter - the former example with at least one MtF partner should just be lesbians, because they both identify as female, no?

        But if they’re identifying as a guy, but still identifying as lesbian, doesn’t that kind of dilute the fact that they’re identifying as a guy?

        Taking that gender identity at face value, shouldn’t any relationship under it identify as gay/straight (dependent on which partner(s) are FtM)?

          • Th4tGuyII@kbin.social
            5·
            1 year ago

            Fair enough. I’m generally a live and let live type of person - but this scenario just seems like a living contradiction to me, so I’m struggling to understand it.

            Also, having just looked at my own reply, sorry if my line of questions came off as needlessly confrontational - was not my intention, I was just curious were others line up on this.

            • halvo317@sh.itjust.works
              3·
              1 year ago

              I didn’t get that vibe from you. I was just saying that thinking about it too rigorously just makes being an ally more difficult than it needs to be.

            • troglodytis@lemmy.world
              1·
              1 year ago

              Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)

              -Whitman

            • T00l_shed@lemmy.world
              21·
              1 year ago

              I understand, I am confused by it as well, but as you said it, live and let live. It truly doesn’t affect me, one way or the other, as long as no one is getting hurt (non consensually) and everyone is having fun, then it has no bearing on my life, so I don’t trouble myself with it. Let me know your pronouns, and I’ll address you as such, the rest doest matter to me!

    • Mandarbmax@lemmy.world
      392·
      1 year ago

      Just a person who is a part of the lesbian community but uses he/him pronouns.

      Specifically people who we would now describe as transmen (assigned female at birth but identify as male) who are attracted to women (or other transmen) who historical have been considered dykes/lesbians/butches/whatever and thus were part of the lesbian community. A 50 year old person as described above who has always been part of the lesbian community but prefers he/him pronouns shouldn’t be excluded now but also shouldn’t have to use different pronouns to be part of it, thus he/him lesbian.

      Pretty much just a queer history fun fact that happens to be actual people alive today.

      • Th4tGuyII@kbin.social
        141·
        1 year ago

        Ah, so you would consider that labelling as a kind of carveout for those who would likely have identified as transmen in our current culture, but are so embedded into lesbian culture that it’s kinda hard to dissociate with it despite the new identify?

        Though I will ask, to identify as a guy but still identify as a lesbian, doesn’t that kind of dilute the aspect of identifying as a guy - essentially being one foot out and one foot in?
        I don’t mean to offend, I’m just not fully understanding it.

        • flucksy_bango@lemmy.world
          5·
          1 year ago

          I’m trans and ace and this stuff confuses the everloving fuck out of me. A lot of stuff confuses me though, so I don’t judge.

        • Mandarbmax@lemmy.world
          1·
          1 year ago

          I think you hit the nail on the head.

          Ya, a reasonable argument could probably be made that it is a bit contradictory but I guess people who identify as such consider it a better description than the alternatives. Not really an expert on the topic so I can’t really give a better answer

      • Hangglide@lemmy.world
        7·
        1 year ago

        This is so confusing. Are their partners lesbian? Lesbians like girls, but these people identify as boys. So only straight women would date them, except they have female tackle, so straight women won’t date them, only lesbians partners will do. But lesbians like she/her so we are back to square one. Who dates them?

        • quicksand@lemm.ee
          11·
          1 year ago

          People who ask them out that they say yes to. I’m a straight man who doesn’t have much experience with these kind of things, but I’m pretty sure you’re overthinking it

        • s_s@lemmy.one
          4·
          1 year ago

          Pan. These folks are pansexual and non-gender conforming.

          Beyond that it’s a free-for-all.

          Whether they prefer pronouns or not is individual to them. Whether they identify as lesbian or not is up to them. Whether they embrace “queer” as a rollup identity or not is up to them.

          You’re asking all these questions like they care to answer them. They do not. They want to do their own thing and be their own best version of themselves and date like-minded people.

        • clanginator@lemmy.world
          3·
          1 year ago

          straight women won’t date them

          You can be straight and date someone who is trans. Genitalia is only one part of a person’s body/gender, intercourse is only one part of sex, and sex is only one part of a relationship. (and for some, sex isn’t even part of a relationship)

          When it comes to relationships with queer people (which, to be clear, I think is everyone to some extent), you gotta first think of sexuality and gender as a spectrum, because if you’re thinking in traditional gender binaries, there just isn’t a good way of explaining many things.

          Trying to fit gender non-conformists and different sexual orientations into a hetero-normative binary is like taking the visible light spectrum and then trying to describe it in terms of black and white. It’s at best going to be a very poor representation of what’s actually there that doesn’t get you any closer to actually understanding things.

          This is one of the articles I sent my brother to help explain things to him, hopefully that helps reframe things for you in a way that’s helpful in understanding things better.

          • Hangglide@lemmy.world
            3·
            1 year ago

            This is a pretty good answer for those of us who fully support people dating whoever they like but don’t spend a lot of time thinking about it.

      • AeonFelis@lemmy.world
        6·
        1 year ago

        who are attracted to women (or other transmen)

        If they are lesbians, shouldn’t the be attracted to transwomen rather than transmen?