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- cross-posted to:
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Man, I’m so glad this global warming thing is leftist propaganda or I’d really be freaking out right now.
Luckily, we can choose to reject reality and believe whatever makes us feel better.
I feel best believing the biosphere is gonna force humanity to “find out” for the last century of fuckin around with a recklessly unplanned terraform.
Love how the collective of humanity needs to find out because the richest few fucked around.
You can always find these people and make them find out. They are actively committing genocide against the human race.
But the rich are supplying a demand. And a ton of innovation wouldn’t be there without them.
Imagine thinking CEOs drive innovation lmao
Why does it seem like there are a ton more conservatives here on Lemmy than there were on Reddit?
My theory is they just had a habit of getting banned so they weren’t as visable
I don’t know how I feel about it. On one hand, it makes for less of an echo chamber. On the other hand, their thoughts are fucking stupid and it hurts my brain to see them.
Idk. I’m on kbin and haven’t experienced that. Usually when I wish violent death on conservatives I get a ton of upvotes.
I mean, I think they’re definitely still in the minority. It seems like there’s a larger proportion of them here than on reddit. I see more of their opinions here. Maybe that’s just how the algo works here regarding upvotes & downvotes and how comments are displayed.
Happy to have them here. I almost never agree with them, but not only is it good to have your opinion challenged (though often wearying to have to repeat yourself), it’s good for THEM to have their opinion challenged too. Maybe only 1/100 will change their opinion after being challenged and seeing that their opinion is very much in the minority, but that’s 1/100 more than if we were all chatting away in a safe space with no opposing views.
(and to be clear, no I don’t think shit like nazis, devout racists etc is an ‘opposing view’ that deserves any debate)
For every person that choose to leave reddit…
There’s 5-10 “conservatives” who were ip banned and dont have a choice between Reddit and Lemmy.
They are not getting down-voted into nothingness for refusing to tow the party line.
I appreciate the variety of opinions presented here. Plus (in my experience) the conversation has been civil.
Yeah. I hardcore disagree with conservatives as a libertarian socialist myself, but I always want to hear what people who disagree with me (and people who agree with me) are saying, and engage in civil conversation with people who actually believe what they say.
The problem for me comes when shills (people who don’t believe what they say but get paid to say it) come into the conversation, or when people use outright disingenuous arguments (usually strawmans).
But they kinda do. Imagine Samsung or Apple stopping innovation. Company goes bankrupt.
You think Tim Apple is coming up with their innovations? Lol
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No, but it takes a person to control a company. A Person to direct the goals of a company. So I guess Tim Apple is somewhat involved if there is innovation or not.
Oh brother
Man I am kinda sorry, that I invade your worldview.
But rich people don’t have all their money stored in a vault like Dagobert Duck. It’s all stocks.
And boy, if one of the companies make losses, then their money goes downhill. It’s volatile.
And due to immense concurrence in innovation in the tech sector, every investor has a huge interest in innovation.
And with many investment, the start of a company is ensured.
The current capitalism is the system that works best.
Especially the US capitalism is one hell of a driver in innovation. I live in Germany and many companies wouldn’t be possible here. Even though we have capitalism, it’s much softer than its US counterpart.
The downside of course is poverty for cheaper labour.
And that’s brutal, but it’s the reality we live in.
Though I wouldn’t want to live in the US without healthcare, on the counter side I wouldn’t want to start a company here in Europe.
You mean the innovation that’s destroying the planet? Ok bro.
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Holy shit please tell me this person is just trolling us. I refuse to believe this is a real take
Anytime someone points to the Saudis as an example to follow…probably don’t need to listen to anything else they say.
I am no troll. I believe that I see the world as it is. I guess so do you.
Doesn’t matter much though. No matter what we do. We will see who is right. Luckily time passes all by itself. For now.
This is a good example of the worst kind of pseudo intellectual bs that tricks the uninformed. It’s confidently wrong in so many different areas that I don’t even know where to start.
Maybe if you don’t know where to start means that you don’t know where I am actually wrong?
European style houses won’t save anyone from extreme heat
Europe has had plenty of fatal heatwaves in the past.
Saudi Arabia has ‘proven’ whatever it has proven through insane levels of draconian state intervention in everything, a lot of oil rents, and using imported slave labour.
https://www.hrw.org/reports/2008/saudiarabia0708/5.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_workers_in_Saudi_Arabia?wprov=sfla1
Hardly a model for anyone to follow.
I don’t think you have been reading a single one of the articles. The first one already is a not so fitting response to m claim that European style houses are ore resilient against extreme weather events.
adapting to extreme weather events shouldn’t be too hard. Maybe start building European style housing.
European style house, 2021, Germany: https://piped.video/watch?v=Ork8a_qrw8s
A similar flood happened in 1804 in the same region. Exactly the same region.
The houses were placed in a strategically bad position.
And many had no cellars ( to reinforce the houses in the ground).
The worst kind of bootlicking.
Oh no, I was called a bootlicker and my ego will now collapse…
Are you sure it’s not the demand driving the demand? The rich are the supply-side of “supply and demand”.
Demand driving the demand?
Does needing something increase the need for it by itself into infinite need?
The demand side of the economy is the consumer population. The consumers decide what they do and do not want to purchase, therefore driving demand.
“Infinite need” implies that infinite supply could exist, or that infinite growth is sustainable, both of which are not true. Infinite need also doesn’t exist.
I will argue that people (for example) needing clean water increases the demand for clean water. This is why companies like Nestle are profiteering off of selling bottled water, and why the CEO said that water should not be a human right.
Wait. But someone has to bottle the water, right? Or is nestle supposed to do it for free?
Furthermore they have to compete with tap water. So the value of bottled water can only be the water itself + bottle + energy used to fill bottle + interest because their “service” is not for free. There is a justified interest to make a profit from one’s efforts.
Demand driving the demand?
Does needing something increase the need for it by itself into infinite need?
Like the
explosion motorcombustion engine?What’s an explosion motor? Motor ain’t supposed to explode.
… Do you really not know how combustion engines work?
They use combustion.
Shhh shhh. You gotta use crayons for the big words.
English is not my primary language. I believe it was explosion motor what you have written at first.
And while I am no expert of the workings of a modern combustion engine, I do indeed have an understanding of how a combustion engine works.
I also know what reaction takes place and I know the average fuel consumption of an average European car.
The rich didn’t innovate anything
I give you that. Just a few were directly involved in innovation.
But the rich do quite successfully create the framework conditions for innovation and development. Mostly driven by profit, but a world based purely on goodwill fails at the first doubter, the first who does not want to participate. So capitalism is what we got. And so far it has proven to be more resilient than other systems.
Thanks to denial, I’m immortal!
Inspector 5 gave me his blessing!
How could he bring me into this world knowing I would die?
My uber driver said that global warming is actually true but have literally nothing about human influence.
Some years ago these persons were saying that global warming was a hoax, now that only the human influence is a hoax.
I always hated that argument from people.
Even if they’re right — which we all know they are not — it wouldn’t matter. Climate change is going to devastate human life if we do nothing. If, somehow, the source of the warming wasn’t human-caused, we’d still need to find a way to counteract it. It’s not our fault doesn’t prevent it from being our problem.
“it has nothing to do with human influence”
“Ok, then let’s prepare for the inevitable, strengthen infrastructure, prepare for mass migrations, improve our crops to sustain bigger variances in weather, evacuate people from flood danger zones, ensure our supply chain doesn’t collapse, fund poor countries so they can survive better, etc. You know, prepare for the crisis”
:|
>:(
I had a guy tell me once that maybe climate change is just the Earth getting closer to the sun, and we should send an astronaut up to the Hubble telescope so they can look through it and measure the distance to the sun…
I’ve known this guy for over a decade, and it’s not that he’s stupid, he’s just completely ignorant about climate change and doesn’t put in any effort to learn about science.
Ahhh, yes. The conservative backpedalling.
It’s not happening. It’s happening but it’s all cyclical. It’s not cyclical this time but it’s not our fault. It’s our fault but global warming is good ackshually. Global warming is bad but there’s nothing we can do about it. We could do something about it but it’s too expensive/late. Maybe it’s not too expensive but THE CHINESE!
In stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
In stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there’s nothing we can do.
Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it’s too late now.
but global warming is good ackshually.
My dad unironically used this argument when we were talking about this last week. Some people have their heads so far up their own ass, it’s just sad.
Had a argument with a person on YouTube, he thought that increased CO2 in the atmosphere would be beneficial. It would help plants grow better!
Also that humans was not behind it.
It’s not a problem! And if it is, it’s not our fault. And even if it is, it was completely necessary.
Basically all right wing policies.
You got it wrong, it’s:
That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.(no not all conservatives/climate change deniers are narcissists but the overlap is interesting)
There’s a lot of money pushing this idea. I live in a certain US state where an organization has been paying to have billboards up that push this idea for years now.
The most terrible thing is that it’s a half truth. While yes plants grow better with increased CO2, the downsides are so destructive it is not at all beneficial.
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They might grow bigger, but I don’t think they grow better. Veritasium did a video about the increase in CO2 having an effect on plants.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/Yl_K2Ata6XY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
oo Interesting video! I’ll send it to them ^^ thanks <3
I heard that on talk radio once too. 20 years ago!
BuT CO2 iS pLaNt FoOd! Why do you hate plants!
The sad thing is we’re supposed to be in a ice age. The plant is further away from the sun about the same plane since the last ice age.
It’s crazy how often I find this fitting: The Four Stage Strategy. At least it gives me a smile now and then.
If you’re based in the UK, then all you can do is smile at the shit we have to deal with government-wise. If you don’t laugh, you’ll go mad, kinda thing.
That ‘Four Stage Strategy’ is horribly, horribly apt even today.
I’ve found a clever way to counter those folks is to say, “you might be right, and as the apex species it’s our moral obligation to seize control and protect the natural order of things for as long as we are able to slow the coming of hell on earth. Just like our right to shoot guns. Yee haw.”
Just like our right to shoot guns Sadly or happily this one doesn’t work in my country.
What I hear some acquaintances say is like “who cares, I’ll go to the beach, turn the AC on, what’s the big deal” .
As if the floods we had in Italy this year, or the wild fires, or the storms, or the draughts, or the Alps without snow, the glaciers disappeared, the sea turned green, the invasion of jellyfish weren’t connected.
Some people, most people, are just too fucking stupid.
Don’t forget crops. You can’t eat heat.
Ask them if they’ll be at the beach when it’s 55c out and all the crops have died.
To be fair, I think both sides blow it out of proportion and that can stifle discussion. It won’t be the “end of the world” where everyone will die, but we will have the “end of the world” as we know it.
I think one of the main points that need to be stressed to the kind of people in your example would be droughts.
Droughts will continue to get worse and will affect everyone. With a bad enough drought, we won’t be able to feed entire cities. And that’s when things really start to fall apart.
Yeah, people expect the earth to suddenly start cracking and spitting out hot lava or something.
No, it’s gonna be a slow, steady march towards the end, just as it always has been. Slow enough that we feel like we can put it off for another day.
Slow enough that one day we will look up from our phones, see the oceans of fire and shrug. Too late now, just switch on the AC and go back to scrolling.
As an example of this, the North America wildfires this year don’t really seem to be due to climate change… but people keep tying the ideas together.
The extreme weather swings and the droughts are bad enough. And it is guaranteed to get worse. No reason to stretch the truth.
Hopefully we’ll have a final super pandemic and all the stupid people are gone, then we can fix the world. It’ll be pretty obvious which ones as they won’t be wearing masks, vaccinating, or they’ll be having delusions.
If you don’t choose to believe in it, it can’t hurt you. That’s verified fact
Phew, that’s a load off my mind.
I used to be subbed to /r/collapse. I see world news is covering that for me.
Me too but lately I feel like I don’t miss it too much. It’s all around us now. You either see it, or you’re an asshole.
Yhe they do think of everything
Has been in earnest since about 2014 by my watch
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Well, there’s [email protected]
I think a lot of them also did come over here. No doubt about it, daily records are being broken but sharing without any context feels very on brand for that ole gang.
But I have been recycling like they asked me too. Who’s not doing their part? Oh wait …
We are so fucked. And this is only the beginning.
Yeah, sad thing is we are already signed up for the next 20 years, as in even if we stopped emitting everything tomorrow, we would still have +2°C in 20 years…
And how realistic is stopping everything tomorow?
+3°C… we would need to have a new coronavirus crisis every years, not just a new one, but stack them on top, in terms of emissions. Ofc you can’t have more then one global confinement at a time (doesn’t make sense to double confine someone) so that wouldn’t even work.
We. Are. Fucked.
We aren’t locked in for the next twenty years, only the next ten years.
We could build a thousand RBMK like nuclear reactors in a decade and then suck out 50 ppm of CO2 out of the atmosphere in another decade.
Would cost $500B to $1T or so.
We just don’t really think global warming is serious enough to warrant an action plan at the scale of the Manhattan project, Apollo program or Messmer plan.
We’re not locked in for the next 20 years. Not for the next 10.
The carbon in the atmosphere is going to be there for the next millenium and the temperature won’t level out till the 2100s if we stopped all carbon emission right this second.
Furthermore, if we did stop all emissions right now, the planet would get 0.5-1.5 °C hotter within a year or two due to the end of the aerosol pollution cooling effect that’s been cutting the effects of carbon induced climate change in half this whole time.
This year is so hot because they put limitations on sulfur emissions from shipping boats in the Pacific. Those emissions were cooling the atmosphere, but the aerosol emissions (which that sulfur is one of) only last in the atmosphere for about 2 weeks before they’re rained out of the air.
We’re fucked.
So can’t we reintroduce the sulfur?
It was taken out because the pollution was directly responsible for tens of thousands of deaths per year. If we need to geoengineer an aerosol to cool the planet, we can do better.
Deaths from increasing temperatures are estimated to be in the hundreds of thousands a year already, how many of those could the aerosols have prevented? Was that more or less than tens of thousands?
I’m not saying it can’t be done or it shouldn’t necessarily, I’m just trying to express why this decision happened at a political level. Politics only occasionally leads humanity to the logical course of action.
So which is the lesser evil?
Removing CO2 from the atmosphere is a speculative technology at the moment.
Like, yes, we “can” do it, if you ignore all the materials and energy needed to perform that process. And that’s just in theory, in practice its bound to be far more difficult.
No matter how you put it, it’s easier to just… Not release the pollution in the first place. If it’s too difficult to stop polluting, it will certainly be too difficult to remove that pollution that has been already released. Entropy and all that.
Removing CO2 from the atmosphere is something we should only really start thinking about when the world already runs nearly entirely cleanly.
You ignore political realities.
An Apollo scale program to extract carbon emissions from the atmosphere could be financed by the OECD countries without heavily impacting their economies.
Building a thousand nuclear plants with reduced safety requirements in a remote place would not run into NIMBY problems.
Stopping emissions globally would require Chinese political will, since they emit more than all of the OECD combined.
China has stalled their CO2 emissions since roughly 2012; they mostly pollute so much because there’s immense demand of manufactured goods in richer countries; they’ve been putting far more effort into transitioning to renewables than some Western countries; and they’re still below emissions per capita than Canada, the US, Russia, South Korea, Netherlands, Poland, Iran, Israel, Germany and Japan.
If you want China to emit even less, support protectionist policies in Western countries and/or tariff reductions for products that may prove they’ve been produced with renewables.
That graph badly needs updating. They stalled between 2012 and 2016, but skyrocketed from 10 gigatons 2016 to 11 in 2021.
So no, your premise is wrong.
Isn’t it possible to reduce CO2 on the long run by planned forestry management, if we reduce our own emissions enough?
I’ve started telling people to prepare for the Mad Max times. Yeah it’s hyperbole, but it actually makes them pause for half a second.
What’s disturbing is the gleam in some alt-right people’s eyes.
I think that there need to be a specific tipping point/trigger when everyone and their mother direct funding towards fixing the problem.until then the majority of people won’t simply care
I’m genuinely curious at this point if that point even exists. Like, I’ve had legitimate conversations with multiple people and i’ve asked them “what would need to happen for you to believe in human’s causing climate change?” The answer is generally something along the lines of “I’m not sure it’s even possible for humans to have that big of an effect on the earth.”
I would imagine there are tons of people out there who think the same, people with VERY deep pockets and in equally powerful positions that would never change course on their money making machines. Literally the only way I see substantial change happening is if it becomes incredibly profitable.
The tipping point was going to be “our cheap labor is dying out and profits are going down”… except now with automation it’s going to be “our robots are breaking down and we need a few more experts to fix them”, so no need to care about 99% of the population.
The rich and powerful have to see very direct problems that affect them. Kind of like when social conservative politicians take an anti-LGBT position, then turns out their kid is trans, so then they pivot to being pro-LGBT in rhetoric so they can keep talking to their kid.
Someone at work said “If climate change is real, then why don’t rich people sell their beach properties?”
And before you ask, yes they are a boomer.
Jokes aside, this is very concerning. And sad. Humanity will never be able to pull on one string.
Considering here in Winnipeg, Canada, where it reaches -35C or even colder, it was pretty wild having weeks on end of +30C to even +39C temperatures, and so soon into our summer.
I never want to complain about the heat when we have snow for 7 months, but that was ridiculous.
The planet isn’t going anywhere. We are!
- Carlin
Pack your shit, folks. We’re going away!
It’s unlikely I will need shit where I’m going
- Hottest 14 days ever recorded so far…
Global warming having a giant effect now.
My father in law is in complete denial. According to him they moved all the measurement equipment so that it favours “the Agenda” and gives wrong readings. He also claimes CO2 isnt a greenhouse gas. Sigh…
What makes people become that dumb?
fear of having lived your life entirely wrong and being too old to accept responsibility in changing it
Living in their own reality and being drip fed propaganda constantly
FoxNews
Acknowledging the truth means accepting that we’re fucked, that even if we weren’t individually responsible (maybe) we are still going to have to deal with the ramifications… And that’s scary. It’s far more comforting for there to be a secret cabal controlling everything and that really life is gonna be ok and you don’t have to change anything at all.
In their fairy tale, inaction may even be the moral choice, because any reaction would be playing right into the secret cabal’s evil plans.
Propoganda baybeeee
Decades of it
I’ve spent years working at a fossil-fuel-adjacent company, and I’ve noticed that even some intelligent people (consciously or unconsciously) avoid any information that that might make them think they may not being living a perfectly moral life, or information where the obvious solution goes against their “values” (pro-business, free market). They also grasp for any information that affirms their values and lifestyle, no matter how easily discredited the source.
It’s kinda worrying that it always seems to result in Nazi-like conspiracy theories like “the Agenda,” “Elites,” “groomers,” “cultural marxism,” etc.
It’s not being dumb, it’s being that stubborn.
If they hadn’t “picked a side” already, they would be very easy to convince.
Republicans
What like they moved the sensors closer to the sun?
the a.c. broke in my apartment wish me luck guys
Pair this with the Atlantic Ocean temperatures this year and you can anticipate an enormous, global shortage of food.
How does a city if 1 Million, or more, feed itself when all surrounding regions can’t grow food?
We’re fucked, so fucked.
We have the technology for indoor skyscraper style farming.
but not the political will nor legal ability to force landlords to allow it to happen.
I mean, in the scenario described where we literally can’t grow food in the surrounding land, it’s hard to say what the political landscape or legal institutions even looks like at that point.
Mankind is roughly 9 meals between civilization and chaos.
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Do you have any sources? I doubt we would see similar economies of scale compared to current farming.
This absolutely terrifies me, especially since so many people deny climate change. What is it going to be like in 5-10 years?
In the next 5-10 years, we may see mass migrations begin as a few locations become too hot to bear, and corrupt religious authorities seeking power will pin the more hostile climate on recent social changes rather than the actual immorality of corporate greed. This sets the stage for tensions over land and resources to escalate into wars and civil violence in later years.
There is no better time for action than now! Climate Changemakers is a low-commitment way to get involved, if you’re in America.
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