That discomfort, I believe, is the point. Flipping the labeling game on its head is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable with the label. That can be used later for empathy.

And labeling it a persecution fetish is projecting. And saying that the mainstream doesn’t accept it so we shouldn’t either is provocative in a post that says “don’t let mainstream lead you by the nose”.

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Not to mention it’s pretty similar to autistic. Infact I first read it as autistic and got pretty confused reading the post.

“Neurotypical” is the more appropriate word anyway

How is “non-autistic” not an outgroup but “allistic” is?

I feel like it can be over used, but generally I like it, it fills a lexical niche for me. I could use non autistic, but that feels clunky. Sometimes it’s useful to talk about non autistic people’s experiences in relation to autistic people, and sometimes I want to talk about autistic experiences in relation to allistic experiences, so I may prefer a term like allistic.

A thing that feels similar to me is the word allosexual, which means not asexual. I guess I would identify as being on the ace spectrum, but not ace (I’m demisexual), so allosexual is often a useful word

Which foot is the shoe on again?

Neurotypical is honestly a better word

First time ive heard it. I genuinely dont mind it. Its a bit odd but its fun.

Is it pronounced or-listic or al-istic?

So if that’s a thing, do neurotypicals have allism?

you’re entirely right. allistic is silly. i think it’s slightly worse than silly though. i have two takes on this.

my first take is that you shouldn’t slur people.

my second is that if you’re gonna slur someone anyway, don’t be a chicken; just slur them. hiding behind “allistic” is a little bit like hiding behind “youths”, or “fruity”, or “welfare scroungers”, or “special”, or when people do that thing where they go “…she… oh sorry i mean he” (and vice-versa). it’s either a dogwhistle, or dogwhislte-adjacent. we all know what the speaker is implying when they uses these terms. you’re just slurring someone without the confidence necessary to do so.

this is why i unironically use normie (on the internet). sometimes i want to be rude about it, y’know? am in the wrong to slur like this? yes, absolutely. whilst i might use normie in the context of venting, it still doesn’t make it right. but at least i’m not being a coward about my position by hiding behind “allistic”

sometimes, especially when i’m chatting amongst autistics, it’s easier to casually write “when normies do x it upsets me, how about you?” instead of writing formal prose like “Oh I must say! These dastardly Neurotypicals have a particular behaviour pattern that troubles my mind… Do tell me how you bear the burden of such travesties.”.

doing the formal thing is tiring, and sometimes i don’t want to be the better person. 😎👍

Also how are any of these things autistic traits? I’m sitting here chewing my tongue raw for the last 5 years and haven’t gone outside since, have no interest in socialization and have misphonia yet watch asmr. I’m not autistic.

Who the fuck cares? Are you really that fragile?

Non autistic people.

Good human

… Um.

Well. This post has been eye opening and maybe a little disturbing.

Anyway I work in sales and eye contact is a must. I find it really hard to pay any attention to what people are saying when I’m looking at them but I’ve practiced enough that there’s, like, a subroutine in my brain that that picks out the relevant information in a conversation while I consciously am not really engaged in a meaningful way. I’ll ask the right questions and it seems like I’m paying attention but I’m really just running on auto pilot.

I’ll finish a video conference or in person meeting thanking God for transcription software because I can’t recall a fucking thing they talked about.

I’ve realized in life that nobody cares about what’s actuallly happening. They are about what looks like it’s happening. I don’t understand it and I never will but everyone wants you to lie to them, constantly. So just give the people what they need.

Once I realized this life got a lot smoother.

The important part is to increase awareness that Autism is a disability and to ask for tolerance.

Or, you know, I can demand the reasonable accommodations that are my human right.

The important part is to increase awareness that Autism is a disability and to ask for tolerance understanding and accommodation.

I try to help.

If we’re using the language of disability, ‘understanding and accommodation’ seems to afford its subjects a degree of dignity. We tend not to ask for ‘tolerance’ on behalf of the disabled, after all.

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Considering a shit ton of people took the pandemic as an excuse to avoid people including me is not actually that unusual. We only socialize for survival.

Well put. Ultimately this debate comes down to a desire to cover the world in leather rather then wear shoes.

Increased acceptance of autistic people almost universally a good thing (with very specific and few exceptions). The trouble is that the entire rest of the world can’t be psychologists who happen to be experts in understanding every condition.

I agree that people should educate themselves where possible. As much right as autistic adults have to be themselves, other people have the right to form opinions with regard to adherence to social norms.

I think it’s fine to acknowledge the unfortunate truth that autistic people have to live in a society designed around the needs of people who are unlike them in important ways. Saying so shouldn’t diminish their responsibility to try to function in society as best they can despite this challenge.

To an extent, it’s a matter of perspective. We can easily conceive of a society where the things that “normal” people do are considered alien and jarring. If they had to constantly suppress their fundamental nature the way autistic people do, they might not seem so natural and healthy.

Same with pointing instead of using your words, like how the fuck am I supposed to know what you mean by pointing lol

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Personally I find this form of thinking far more dangerous: I come from a country in which being “mentally disabled” would literally mean me being unable to function in polite society, and being a “retard” is something pretty common, even with adults. The fact I was undiagnosed autistic until I left saved me. Sure you don’t function like everyone else, and yeah, it’s hard - trust me -, but to say you’re broken is basically undermining everyone else that has the same condition as you.

Neurodivergent is a middle ground. Our wiring is abnormal in some (or many) ways.

We are broken in the same way a tank is a really shitty car. If all you do is drive the roads, it will seem that way. However, it can go places that a car simply can’t. Critically, this doesn’t make it any less shitty on the roads. Nore let you suddenly become a car. You’re a tank, and stuck as one.

This is different to being broken however. We are forced to adapt to our unusual brain wiring. Some people unfortunately can’t. Others can mask, but find it exhausting.

I’m personally reasonably lucky. I have ADHD and autism. My life was pretty shitty till I learnt not to follow the expectations of others. I now have a family, an interesting job, and hobbies I enjoy. My life is still far from perfect, but it’s not broken, it just felt that way.

1. Just because something is a disability doesn’t mean you can’t call it neurodivergent. It’s just a broader term that means that you’re different.

2. ADHD isn’t a disability for everyone. Plenty of people function fine with it.

Hey. Pretty sure I have undiagnosed ADHD (literally sitting in waiting room to talk to a therapist as I write this), and I feel like there’s a bit more than just being broken. We’re only “broken” because we don’t conform to the currently agreed upon norms. The world isn’t designed for us. And the quicker we can realize that and make personal and societal adaptations to make these “breaks” more standard, well, we’ll all be better off.

This. It’s not a pity party, but it is a justification for medication, and for giving a little bit of understanding.

I really relate to your comment, and one of the most rage inducing experiences I’ve ever had was someone lecturing me on how I shouldn’t call myself disabled, and then they badly explained the social model of disability to me.

However, I also find neurodivergent a useful term because I think that what we understand as disability is limited by our current world view. An example that feels analogous to me is how colonialist empires dismissed the art, culture and knowledge of indigenous peoples because they projected their preconceived values onto them.

I think that there’s a lot we don’t understand about autism, and how heavily normative society is holds us back. There are things that I am great at that feel inextricably linked to my autism. That doesn’t negate all the difficulties I also experience, but the word “neurodivergent” and the conversations that have developed around it feel it carves out space where I can lean into my autistic traits in situations where they’re strengths without having to be “super-autistic”; but also I can struggle in ways that neurotypical people can’t fathom, and it isn’t viewed as “negating” my strengths.

A large part of this is because the first chunk of my adult life, I broke myself by trying to act overly neurotypical, and like many autistics, I found that masking to this degree was unsustainable. Now, I’m much closer to a balance where I can pick my battles and not force myself to be something I’m not - like having tinted glasses for the office instead of expecting myself to somehow cope with my light hypersensitivity. In many ways, it feels like a different mode of being altogether - “wellness” for me looks different to “wellness” to a neurotypical, and I’d wager that “wellness” for you and other people in this thread would look closer to my version than the neurotypical version.

That being said, I agree that the way that people talk about stuff like ADHD and autism feels icky as hell. Personally, I find it more depressing to pretend that I’m not disabled, because actually, ignorance isn’t bliss when I can’t run from my reality. Sometimes things just suck, and they’re hard, and pretending otherwise makes it harder to cope with because it’s implicitly saying “I’m lying to myself because the truth is untenable”.

Same with me, but I don’t have ADHD but depression. I know I’m not normal and it’s not okay to be like me, guess what, telling me that in fact is ok to be a mental fucking mess doesn’t make it better.

🤷 It’s about the social model of disability. It’s certainly incomplete, but it’s not wrong.

I’m just fucking broken.

that is literally every human on this planet. just because someone doesn’t have a mental divergence from perceived norm doesn’t mean they aren’t broken.

Great artists, scientists and inventors are often “neurodivergent”. So maybe you aren’t broken.

That’s because most of those are super normal things that almost nobody cares about.

Same…

99% nobody is judging you.

I take the reason you say this is cause your not on the spectrum?

Most things neurodivergent are actually stuff thats normal and common. Like needing some alone time, but its the degree of intensity, persevering need for those things that make it fit outside the norm.

A fun fact, we have a lot of ties to the roots of the lgbt community. Something about not letting norms and tradition decide how you should think and act. To be different often isn’t a choice and the right for us to exist differently is a matter of survival.

You’ve probably heard this already but, in case you haven’t, try watching their eyebrows or right above them instead. It’s a lot less awkward for some people for reasons I don’t completely understand.

Remember to look away for a moment every ten seconds or so unless you’re trying to seduce or intimidate them! It becomes a routine after awhile. Also, humans are really weird.

As an allistic person, I don’t get any screams in my head when I make eye contact and may not understand what you’re referring to. Intense awkwardness?

Prolomged eye contacts may make some allistic people feel awkward, but generally it’s a positive experience of nonverbal communication.

I think maybe they don’t have the screaming <.< NTs are weird.

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Do you live near the Gaza strip?

I dont agree it’s about authority at all. This entire list is about showing disrespect for someone and expecting them to be OK with it.

To allistic people, everything on this list is insulting behavior that will offend them (except not wanting to eat certain foods).

This behavior will work fine with autistic people though. But you can’t expect it to work with allistic people.

Different brains equals different expectations of what is acceptable social behavior. That’s it.