That’s not correct; you’re taking a black and white, absolutist view to the question, and that just doesn’t work.
For instance, take economics; many traditional conservative positions square pretty well with economic theories and practices. Social conservatism also has a place, given the tension that exists between concepts of community and society. I do not agree with many conservative interpretations, but it’s not accurate to say that all conservatives are intellectually dishonest.
OTOH, modern “conservatives” aren’t conservatives in any meaningful way. It’s now more like regressive populism.
take economics; many traditional conservative positions square pretty well with economic theories and practices
Like trickle down theory, corporate personhood, that tax breaks will result in tax revenue, and that government austerity is preferable to stimulus to move an economy from recession to expansion? They’re zero for four in the most popular 20th century conservative economic theories. I’m not sure that economics is the best lens to view conservative theory in a positive light.
No, Reaganomics was a bad-faith move by social regressives. Corporate personhood has been a reality since Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Co. in 1886, so I guess that’s conservative, but also not exactly. The idea of laissez-faire economics–that the market will mostly sort itself out with minimal gov’t intervention–is generally upheld by prevailing economic theories, and is a fundamentally conservative view. I happen to disagree with the economists though, because they’re only looking at it as an economic issue, rather than economics being a manifestation of the social realities.
Dude. What you consider “the left” IS CONSERVATIVISM. The USA is soooooo far afield, people are sooooo brainwashed, they can’t hold a liberal thought in their heads if they fucking tried.
US liberals are more centrists in a European sense, no argument there. I’m just pointing out that offering up US conservative economic theory as a shining star of success is not the boast they think it is.
“conservative” is starting to feel like a meaningless label that assholes throughout history have tried to use to describe themselves because they didn’t like the other words people were using to describe them.
And don’t get me wrong, I’m sure there are “real” conservatives out there and in history, but it sure feels like they are outnumbered by the people that use the word as a mask, and that is weird.
Conservatism took a weird turn with Reagan. Reagan was socially regressive, and not an orthodox fiscal conservative. George HW Bush (Dubya’s dad) was in many ways more of a traditional conservative. Eisenhower was a particularly notable conservative, and is generally regarded as a successful president. Nixon was likewise extremely successful, and managed to significantly dampen inflation, despite being generally bad on racial issues (although he did enforce desegregation orders, but he was also working to pull the teeth of the civil rights act to appease white southerners), and generally being a thief and liar. His re-election was a complete blow-out, winning every single state except Delaware.
We’ve also got this weird idea that being ‘liberal’ is some kind of magic, that libs are going to do wonderful, magical things as soon as they have majorities in the house and senate, and have the presidency. We’ve seen that NYS, CA, and IL can’t address shit in their own borders–e.g., housing/homelessness, and Obama did very, very little to advance a significant progressive agenda aside from the very weak and watered down ACA. Biden is just going to policies that existed prior to the Trump toxic clownshow.
That is kinda my point, the meaning of “conservative” changes a lot through the centuries it has been used, and the only consistent part seems to be the assholes using it as a “friendly” sounding mask.
And your perspective of the public opinion of liberals is entirely too informed by mainstream media. Many leftists dislike liberals for not being leftist enough, and moderates seem to only expect maintenance of the status quo, not magic
Many leftists dislike liberals for not being leftist enough,
That would be me, right there. The older I get, the farther left I go, and the more disillusioned I get with what I thought Dems had been promising for the 45+ years of my life. Not that Republicans have made my life better in any meaningful way; NAFTA might have improved the bottom line of businesses, but it killed my career in it’s infancy when GM/Ford/Chrysler all moved manufacturing south of the border to take advantage of cheap labor. Meanwhile Biden doesn’t seem to be doing a lot to help labor either, esp. since he killed the railroad strike before it happened.
That’s not correct; you’re taking a black and white, absolutist view to the question, and that just doesn’t work.
For instance, take economics; many traditional conservative positions square pretty well with economic theories and practices. Social conservatism also has a place, given the tension that exists between concepts of community and society. I do not agree with many conservative interpretations, but it’s not accurate to say that all conservatives are intellectually dishonest.
OTOH, modern “conservatives” aren’t conservatives in any meaningful way. It’s now more like regressive populism.
Like trickle down theory, corporate personhood, that tax breaks will result in tax revenue, and that government austerity is preferable to stimulus to move an economy from recession to expansion? They’re zero for four in the most popular 20th century conservative economic theories. I’m not sure that economics is the best lens to view conservative theory in a positive light.
No, Reaganomics was a bad-faith move by social regressives. Corporate personhood has been a reality since Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Co. in 1886, so I guess that’s conservative, but also not exactly. The idea of laissez-faire economics–that the market will mostly sort itself out with minimal gov’t intervention–is generally upheld by prevailing economic theories, and is a fundamentally conservative view. I happen to disagree with the economists though, because they’re only looking at it as an economic issue, rather than economics being a manifestation of the social realities.
Dude. What you consider “the left” IS CONSERVATIVISM. The USA is soooooo far afield, people are sooooo brainwashed, they can’t hold a liberal thought in their heads if they fucking tried.
US liberals are more centrists in a European sense, no argument there. I’m just pointing out that offering up US conservative economic theory as a shining star of success is not the boast they think it is.
neoliberalism is conservative ideology and it has been doing very well the last 40 years, to our vast detriment
“conservative” is starting to feel like a meaningless label that assholes throughout history have tried to use to describe themselves because they didn’t like the other words people were using to describe them.
And don’t get me wrong, I’m sure there are “real” conservatives out there and in history, but it sure feels like they are outnumbered by the people that use the word as a mask, and that is weird.
Conservatism took a weird turn with Reagan. Reagan was socially regressive, and not an orthodox fiscal conservative. George HW Bush (Dubya’s dad) was in many ways more of a traditional conservative. Eisenhower was a particularly notable conservative, and is generally regarded as a successful president. Nixon was likewise extremely successful, and managed to significantly dampen inflation, despite being generally bad on racial issues (although he did enforce desegregation orders, but he was also working to pull the teeth of the civil rights act to appease white southerners), and generally being a thief and liar. His re-election was a complete blow-out, winning every single state except Delaware.
We’ve also got this weird idea that being ‘liberal’ is some kind of magic, that libs are going to do wonderful, magical things as soon as they have majorities in the house and senate, and have the presidency. We’ve seen that NYS, CA, and IL can’t address shit in their own borders–e.g., housing/homelessness, and Obama did very, very little to advance a significant progressive agenda aside from the very weak and watered down ACA. Biden is just going to policies that existed prior to the Trump toxic clownshow.
That is kinda my point, the meaning of “conservative” changes a lot through the centuries it has been used, and the only consistent part seems to be the assholes using it as a “friendly” sounding mask.
And your perspective of the public opinion of liberals is entirely too informed by mainstream media. Many leftists dislike liberals for not being leftist enough, and moderates seem to only expect maintenance of the status quo, not magic
That would be me, right there. The older I get, the farther left I go, and the more disillusioned I get with what I thought Dems had been promising for the 45+ years of my life. Not that Republicans have made my life better in any meaningful way; NAFTA might have improved the bottom line of businesses, but it killed my career in it’s infancy when GM/Ford/Chrysler all moved manufacturing south of the border to take advantage of cheap labor. Meanwhile Biden doesn’t seem to be doing a lot to help labor either, esp. since he killed the railroad strike before it happened.
I don’t want a status quo.
I don’t want a status quo either, I’m also a leftist.
I’m just trying to describe things as I see them.
No true Scotsman much?
So Manchin and Sinema are libs, right? Because they claim to be.
When two random assholes claim a label and all the other pressure who claim it disagree, they’re just two random assholes.
When 99% of the people claiming a label are a certain kind of asshole, that label describes what kind of asshole they are.