OpenAI just admitted it can’t identify AI-generated text. That’s bad for the internet and it could be really bad for AI models.::In January, OpenAI launched a system for identifying AI-generated text. This month, the company scrapped it.
OpenAI just admitted it can’t identify AI-generated text. That’s bad for the internet and it could be really bad for AI models.::In January, OpenAI launched a system for identifying AI-generated text. This month, the company scrapped it.
The wording of every single article has such an anti AI slant, and I feel the propaganda really working this past half year. Still nobody cares about advertising companies, but LLMs are the devil.
Existing datasets still exist. The bigger focus is in crossing modalities and refining content.
Why is the negative focus always on the tech and not the political system that actually makes it a possible negative for people?
I swear, most of the people with heavy opinions don’t even know half of how the machines work or what they are doing.
Probably because LLMs threaten to (and has already started to) shittify a truly incredible number of things like journalism, customer service, books, scriptwriting etc all in the name of increased profits for a tiny few.
again, the issue isn’t the technology, but the system that forces every technological development into functioning “in the name of increased profits for a tiny few.”
that has been an issue for the fifty years prior to LLMs, and will continue to be the main issue after.
removing LLMs or other AI will not fix the issue. why is it constantly framed as if it would?
we should be demanding the system adjust for the productivity increases we’ve already seen, as well to what we expect in the near future. the system should make every advancement a boon for the general populace, not the obscenely wealthy few.
even the fears of propaganda. the wealthy can already afford to manipulate public discourse beyond the general public’s ability to keep up. the bigger issue is in plain sight, but is still being largely ignored for the slant that “AI is the problem.”
It’s a capitalism problem not an AI or copyright problem.
Sure but lets say you try to solve this problem. What’s the first thing you think a coordinated group could do, get sensible regulations about AI, or overthrow global capitalism. Its framed the way it is because unless you want ro revolt that’s the framework we’re gonna have to use to deal with it. I suppose we could alwyas do nothing and focus on just overthrowing capitalism, but during that time lots of harm will come to lots of workers because of AI(LLM) use. I dont think anticapitalism has reached a critical mass (we need this for any real sustem wide attacks on and alternatives to capitalism) so I think dealing with this AI problem and trying to let everyone else know about how it’s really a capitalism thing would do more to build support and avert harm to workers. I hate that its like that too but that basically the real options we have moving forward from my pov.
You tell me what “sensible regulations about AI” are that don’t hurt small artists and creators more than they centralize the major players and enrich copyright hoarding, copyright-maximalist corporations. (Seriously, this isn’t bait. I’ve been wracking my mind on the issue for months. Because the only serious proposals so far are expanding the already far-too-broad copyright rights to things like covering training or granting artists more rights to their work during their lifetime - something that will only hurt small artists) We desperately need more fair use, not less. The only “sensible regulations” that we should and could be talking about is some form of UBI. That’s it.
UBI is a bandaid that doesn’t solve the core issues of production under capitalism, the people with capital still control production, still make more money than eveyone else and still have more money and power to use influencing the politicians that write the laws surrounding UBI. And expecting me to solve the AI problem in a comment section is like me asking you to implement UBI in a way that landlords dont just jack up rent or business dont inflate prices with more cash and demand floating around, also whats your plan for when the level of UBI legislated , or planned increases in UBI is no longer sufficient enough to pay for housing food and other necessities? What do you do to counter the fact that the capitists still have more access to politicians and media empires they can use to discredit and remove UBI?
UBI is a bandaid, sure. But bandaids actually help; “sensible AI regulations” - a nothing phrase that will most likely materialize as yet another expansion of copyright — will actively make things worse. UBI is achievable, and can be expanded on once it’s enacted. You establish protections and regulations that actually help people, and dare opposition to ever try to take them away; instead of carrying water for copyright maximalists along the way.
Exactly. We need to break apart copyright with a crowbar. It’s a broken system that only benefits the rich, and AI has the opportunity to turn the entire system into a pile of unenforceable garbage.
Why does legislation or regulation surrounding AI necessarily have to be copyright maxamilism but UBI regulations are somehow in some undescribed way going to be strong enough to prevent lobbying from the people who still control the mean of production? You’re arguement gets to use the magic regulations that don’t get challenged or changed, but my arguement is stuck to the one mainstream idea that has people worried?
There’s no such thing as “sensible regulations” for AI. AI is a technological advantage. Any time you regulate that advantage, other groups that don’t have those regulations will fuck you over. Even if you start talking about regulations, the corpos will take over and fuck you over with regulations that only hurt the little guy.
Hell, even without regulations, we’re already seeing this on the open-source vs. capitalism front. Google admitted that it lost some advantages because of open-source AI tools, and now these fucking cunts are trying to hold on to their technology as close as possible. This is technology that needs to be free and open-source, and we’re going to see a fierce battle with multi-billion-dollar capitalistic corporations clawing back whatever technological gains OSS acquired, until you’re forced to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to use a goddamn chess bot.
GPLv3 is key here, and we need to force these fuckers into permanent copyleft licenses that they can’t revoke. OpenAI is not open, StabilityAI is not the future, and Google is not your friend.
Is forcing a copyleft licence not exactly a regulation that would be sensible? So why wouldn’t regulations and legislation work?
There’s never been a bill that had the word “copyleft” or “GNU Public License” on it at all, and thanks to corpo lobbyists, there probably never will be. We have to be realistic here, and the only realistic option is to encourage as much protected open-source software on the subject as possible.
Yep, the problem was never LLMs, but billionaires and the rich. The problems have always been the rich for thousands of years, and yet they are immensely successful at deflecting their attacks to other groups for those thousands of years. They will claim it’s Chinese immigrants, or blacks, or Mexicans, or gays, or trans people. Now LLMs and AI are the new boogieman.
We should be talking about UBI, not LLMs.
Exactly. I work in AI (although not the LLM kind, just applying smaller computer vision models), and my belief is that AI can be a great liberator for humanity if we have the right political and economic apparatus. The question is what that apparatus is. Some will say it’s an inherent feature of capitalism, but that’s not terribly specific, nor does it explain the relatively high wealth equality that existed briefly during the middle of the 20th century in America. I think some historical context is important here.
Historical Precedent
During the Industrial Revolution, we had an unprecedented growth in average labor productivity due to automation. From a naïve perspective, we might expect increasing labor productivity to result in improved quality of life and less working hours. I.e., the spoils of that productivity being felt by all.
But what we saw instead was the workers lived in squalor and abject poverty, while the mega-rich captured those productivity gains and became stupidly wealthy.
Many people at the time took note of this and sought to answer this question: why, in an era over greater-than-ever labor productivity, is there still so much poverty? Clearly all that extra wealth is going somewhere, and if it’s not going to the working class, then it’s evidently going to the top.
One economist and philosopher, Henry George, wrote a book exploring this very question, Progress and Poverty. His answer, in short, was rent-seeking:
Rent-seeking takes many forms. To list a few examples:
George’s argument, essentially, was that the privatization of the economic rents borne of god-given things — be it land, minerals, or ideas — allowed the rich and powerful to extract all that new wealth and funnel it into their own portfolios. George was not the only one to blame these factors as the primary drivers of sky-high inequality; Nobel-prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz has stated:
George’s proposed remedies were a series of taxes and reforms to return the economic rents of those god-given things to society at large. These include:
such as in the Norwegian model:
Present Day
Okay, so that’s enough about the past. What about now?
Well, monopolization of land and housing via the housing crisis has done tremendous harm:
And that is just one form of rent-seeking. Imagine the collective toll of externalities (e.g., the climate crisis), monopolistic/oligopolistic markets such as energy and communications, monopolization of valuable intellectual property, etc.
So I would tend to say that — unless we change our policies to eliminate the housing crisis, properly price in externalities, eliminate monopolies, encourage the growth of free and open IP (e.g., free and open-source software, open research, etc.), and provide critical public goods/services such as healthcare and education and public transit — we are on a trajectory for AI to be Gilded Age 2: Electric Boogaloo. AI merely represents yet another source of productivity growth, and its economic spoils will continue to be captured by the already-wealthy.
I say this as someone who works as an AI and machine learning research engineer: AI alone will not fix our problems; it must be paired with major policy reform so that the economic spoils of progress are felt by all, not just the rich.
Joseph Stiglitz, in the same essay I referred to earlier, has this to say:
Dude seek help. If you truly “work in AI” your post was such slop that it was 100% written by a LLM. If you’re going to propagandize, do it well. BRB regurgitating my scraped wall of text from Wikipedia combined with some vague leftist concepts to sound educated and progressive (when I’m really not.) lmao
Well that was uncalled for and needlessly rude. This is the kind of behavior I wish we had left on reddit.
I add in quotes because, in my experience, the vast majority of people don’t click on external links. When I put in the relevant bits as quotes, people are more likely to read them. Plus, anyone can mask any statement beyind a generic-looking link; including the relevant quote makes it harder to intentionally misrepresent the content of the source.
Edit: Georgism is not even leftist, so to say I’m trying to sound vaguely leftist is simply incorrect.
“We.” Who? “Lemmy”? It’s a federated collection of various instances.
I’m not being rude lol. I’m pointing out that your post was pure propaganda that stems from either unbridled optimism that is questionable, or from advocating for your career. It’s just transparent and deserved a call out, lmao. Hence my point about being good at propaganda, if it’s obvious it’s just annoying.
In what world is “dude seek help” not rude? Plus, you directly called me uneducated and not progressive, so not sure how that’s a polite thing to say either.
Beyond that, is no one ever allowed to advocate for their own political and economic views without it being “propaganda”? I feel I was pretty clear that I was giving my perspective, and I was backing it up with relevant links and quotes for anyone wanting to know more. If you want to look through my post and comment history, I’m sure you’ll be able to quickly tell that these are my sincerely-held beliefs, and that I spend a lot of time thinking about these things.
And by “we”, I mean we the people on lemmy, where “lemmy” refers to the collective network of instances on which we all post and comment and interact with each other.
This isn’t a technological issue, it’s a human one
I totally agree with everything you said, and I know that it will never ever happen. Power is used to get more power. Those in power will never give it up, only seek more. They intentionally frame the narrative to make the more ignorant among us believe that the tech is the issue rather than the people that own the tech.
The only way out of this loop is for the working class to rise up and murder these cunts en masse
Viva la revolucion!
I completely agree with you, ai should be seen as a great thing, but we all know that the society we live in will not pass those benefits to the average person, in fact it’ll probably be used to make life worse. From a leftist perspective it’s very easy to see this, but from the Norman position, atleast in the US, people aren’t thinking about how our society slants ai towards being evil and scary, they just think ai is evil and scary. Again I completely agree with what you’ve said it’s just important to remember how reactionary the average person is.
Technology is but a tool. It cannot tell you how to use it. If it’s in the hands of a writer it’s a helpful sounding board. If it’s in the hands of a Netflix producer it’s an anti-labor tool. We need to protect people’s livelyhoods
Journalism and customer service can’t possibly get worse than they already are.
Books and movies are not at risk - there will always be lots of people willing to write good content for both, and the best content will be published. And “the best” will be a hybrid of humans and AI working together - which is what has some people in that industry so scared. Just like factory workers were scared when machines entered that industry. There are still factory workers today. Probably more than ever.
Yah I think it’s fairly obvious that people are both fascinated and scared by the tech and also acknowledge that under a different economic structure, it would be extremely beneficial for everyone and not just for the very few. I think it’s more annoying that people like you assume that everyone is some sort of diet Luddite when they’re just trying to see how the tool has the potential to disrupt many, many jobs and probably not in a good way. And don’t give me this tired comparison about the industrial revolution because it’s a complete false equivalence.
I am so tired of techno-fetishist AI bros complaining every single time any of the many ways in which AI will devastate and rot out daily lives is brought up.
“It’s not the tech! It’s the economic system!”
As if they’re different things? Who is building the tech? Who is pouring billions into the tech? Who is protecting the tech from proper regulation, smartass? I don’t see any worker coops using AI.
“You don’t even know how it works!”
Just a thought terminating cliche to try to avoid any discussion or criticism of your precious little word generators. No one needs to know how a thing works to know it’s effects. The effects are observable reality.
Also, nobody cares about advertising companies? What the hell are you on about?
they are different things. it’s not exclusively large companies working on and understanding the technology. there’s a fantastic open-source community, and a lot of users of their creations.
would destroying the open-source community help prevent the big-tech from taking over? that battle has already been lost and needs correction. crying about the evil of A.I. doesn’t actually solve anything. “proper” regulation is also relative. we need entirely new paradigms of understanding things like “I.P.” which aren’t based on a century of lobbying from companies like disney. etc.
and yes, understanding how something works is important for actually understanding the effects, when a lot of tosh is spewed from media sites that only care to say what gets people to engage.
i’d say a fraction of what i see as vaguely directed anger towards anything A.I. is actually relegated to areas that are actual severe and important breaches of public trust and safety, and i think the advertising industry should be the absolute focal point on the danger of A.I.
Are you also arguing against every other technology that has had their benefits hoarded by the rich?
It’s mostly large companies, some models are open source (of which only some are also community driven), but the mainstream ones are the ones being entirely funded by, legally protected by, and pushed onto everything by capitalist olligarchs.
What other options do you have? I’m sick and tired of people like you seeing workers lose their jobs, seeing real people used like meat puppets by the internet, seeing so many artists risking their livelihoods, seeing that we’ll have to lose faith in everything we see and read because it could be irrecognizably falsified, and CLAIMING you care about it, only to complain every single time any regulation or way to control this is proposed, because you either don’t actually care and are just saying it for rhetoric, or you do care but only to the point you can still use your precious little toys restriction-free. Just overthrow the entire economic system of all countries on earth, otherwise don’t do anything, let all those people burn! Do you realize how absurd you sound?
It’s sociopathic. I don’t say it as an insult, I say it applying the definition of a word, it’s a complete lack of empathy and care for your fellow human beings, it’s viewing an inmaterial piece of technology, nothing but a thoughtless word generator, like inherently worth more than the livelihood of millions. I’m absolutely sick of it. And then you have the audacity to try to seem like the reasonable ones when arguing about this, knowing if you had your way so many would suffer. Framing it as anti-capitalism knowing that if you had your way you’d pave the way for the olligarchs to make so many more billions off of that suffering.
it’s like you just ignored my main points.
get rid of the A.I. = the problem is still the problem. has been especially for the past 50 years, any non-A.I. advancement continues the trend in the exact same way. you solved nothing.
get rid of the actual problem = you did it! now all of technology is a good thing instead of a bad thing.
false information? already a problem without A.I. always has been. media control, paid propagandists etc. if anything, A.I. might encourage the main population to learn what critical thought is. it’s still just as bad if you get rid of A.I.
" CLAIMING you care about it, only to complain every single time any regulation or way to control this is proposed, because you either don’t actually care and are just saying it for rhetoric" think this is called a strawman. i have advocated for particular A.I. tools to get much more regulation for over half a decade. how long have you been addressing the issue?
you are arguing “the actual problem is unsolvable, so get rid of all automation and technology!”? you have given no argument against A.I. currently that doesn’t boil down to this when addressed.
which again, solves nothing, and doesn’t improve anything.
should i tie your opinions to the actual result of your actions?
say you succeed. A.I. is gone. nothing has changed. inequality is still getting worse and everything is terrible. congratulations! you managed to prevent countless scientific discoveries that could help countless people. congrats, the blind and deaf lose their potential assistants. the physically challenged lose potential house-helpers. etc.
on top of that, we lose the biggest argument for socializing the economy going forward, through massive automation that can’t be ignored or denied while we demand a fair economy.
for some reason i expect i’m wasting my time trying to convince you, as your argument seems more emotionally motivated than rationalized.
What are you on about? Who’s talking about “completely getting rid of AI”? And you accuse me of strawmanning? I didn’t even argue that it should be stopped. I argued that every single time anyone tries or suggests doing anything to curtail these things people like you jump out to vehemently defend your precious programs from regulation or even just criticism, because we should either completely destroy capitalism or not do anything at all, there is no inbetween, there is nothing we can do to help anyone if it’s not that.
Except there is. There are plenty of things that can be done to help the common people besides telling them “well just tough it out until we someday magically change the fundamentals of the economic system of the entire world, nerd”. It just would involve restricting what these things can do. And you don’t want that. It’s fine but own up to it. Trying to have this image that you really do care about helping but just don’t want to help at all unless it’s via an incredibly unprobable miracle pisses me off.
For someone who accuses others of not understanding how AI works, to then say something like this is absurd. I hope you’re being intellectually dishonest and not just that naive. There is absolutely no comparison between a paid propagandist and the irrecognizable replicas of real things you could fabricate with AI.
People are already abusing voice actors by sampling them and making covers with their voices without their permission and certainly without paying. We can already make amateur videos of the person speaking to pair it up with the generated audio. In a few years when the technology innevitably gets better I will be able to perfectly fabricate a video that can ruin someone’s life with a few clicks. If this process is sophisticated enough there will be minimal points of failure, there will be almost nothing to investigate and try to figure out if the video is false or not. No evidence will ever mean anything, it could all be fabricated. If you don’t see how this is considerably worse than ANYTHING we have right now to falsify information, then there is nothing I can say to ever convince you. “Oh, but if nothing can be demonstrably true anymore, the masses will learn critical thought!” Sure.
This is what I mean. You people lack any kind of nuance. You can only work in this “all or nothing” thinking. No “anti-AI” person wants to fully and completely destroy every single machine and program powered by artificial intelligence, jesus christ. It’s almost like it’s an incredibly versatile tool that has many uses that can be used for good and bad, It’s almost like we should, call me an irrational emotional snowflake if you want, put regulations in place so the bad uses are heavily restricted, so we can live with this incredible technology without feeling constantly under threat because we are using it responsibly.
Instead what you propose is, don’t you dare limit anything, open the flood gates and let’s instead change the economic system so that the harmful don’t also destroy people economically. Except the changes you want not only don’t fix some of the problems unregulated and free AI use for everything bring, they go against the interests of every single person with power in this system, so they have an incredibly minuscule chance of ever being close to happening, much less happening peacefully. I’d be okay if it was your ultimate goal, but if you’re not willing to have a compromise on something that could minimize the harm this is doing in the meantime without being a perfect solution, why shouldn’t I assume you just don’t care? What reasons are you giving me to not believe that you simply prefer seeing the advancements of technology rather than the security of your fellow humans, and you’re just saying this as an excuse to keep it that way?
Right, because that’s the way to socialize the economy. By having a really good argument. I’m sure it will convince the people that have unmeasurable amounts of wealth and power precisely because the economy is not socialized. It will be so convincing they will willingly give all of that up.
then what the fuck are you even arguing? i never said “we should do NO regulation!” my criticism was against blaming A.I. for things that aren’t problems created by A.I.
i said “you have given no argument against A.I. currently that doesn’t boil down to “the actual problem is unsolvable, so get rid of all automation and technology!” when addressed.”
because you haven’t made a cohesive point towards anything i’ve specifically said this entire fucking time.
are you just instigating debate for… a completely unrelated thing to anything i said in the first place? you just wanted to be argumentative and pissy?
i was addressing the general anti-A.I. stance that is heavily pushed in media right now, which is generally unfounded and unreasonable.
I.E. addressing op’s article with “Existing datasets still exist. The bigger focus is in crossing modalities and refining content.” i’m saying there is a lot of UNREASONABLE flak towards A.I. you freaked out at that? who’s the one with no nuance?
your entire response structure is just… for the sake of creating your own argument instead of actually addressing my main concern of unreasonable bias and push against the general concept of A.I. as a whole.
i’m not continuing with you because you are just making your own argument and being aggressive.
I never said “we can’t have any regulation”
i even specifically said " i have advocated for particular A.I. tools to get much more regulation for over 5-10 years. how long have you been addressing the issue?"
jesus christ you are just an angry accusatory ball of sloppy opinions.
maybe try a conversation next time instead of aggressively wasting people’s time.
So, like, everything? I’ve talked about the problems and shit AI will cause on us and your only response consistantly was “Yeahhhh but if we completely ban my precious AI then we wont have all of it’s nice things! Better to wait until capitalism is magically solved”. Then the problems that weren’t economics-related you handwaved away. Please illuminate me on a problem you think is real, caused by AI, and that you would be willing to regulate within the bounds of our current system?
I’ve argued against your mentality and the mentality of the people that always show up on posts concerned about AI to defend it. I’ve even responded to specific phrases you said. What else do you even want?
If you don’t want people to feel threatened by AI, maybe be willing to fix its threats? Maybe don’t just go to something people find concerning and say “we can’t dare to do anything about this!” and try to reframe it as some sort of tragic prevention by the ignorant masses?
That means nothing to me. Those are just words. Your actions have been vehemently defending AI and trying to convince me that curtailing it is pointless, while also trying to appear concerned about its threats. Those are completely contradictory positions that you held now, and that’s what I pointed out. I don’t care what you have been doing for years.
When have I ever obbligated you to respond to me? I’ve never hidden that this topic and people who think like you make me angry. If you didn’t want to deal with it you could have just ignored me.
It does make me angry. It makes me angry to see so many people be threatened so unfairly. It makes me angry to see people not care about that and prefer seeing further sophistication of a thoughtless algorithm over lives, but at least those people are honest. Dishonesty is what makes me livid. Those that have the same attitude but know they’d sound awful if they said it straight forwardly, so they try to find a hip and cool thing to parade as. It’s totally anti-capitalist to not want to stop capitalist corporations abusing workers to replace them bro, trust me.