• Kalkaline @leminal.space
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    46
    ·
    5 months ago

    At some point you have to just beat on these authoritarians. The only thing they know is violence. Sure, try peaceful protests first, but don’t stop there if it’s not getting the job done.

    • Arghblarg@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      26
      ·
      5 months ago

      The paradox of tolerance – those who break the ‘social contract’ deserve no tolerance from the otherwise tolerant, otherwise they’ll just run roughshod over everyone. I hate violence as well and have no stomach for it, but it does seem there may be no other way to stop regimes like this.

      • phoenixz@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        5 months ago

        As always, it’s not that easy

        First you would.do well to read up on the history of Iran, especially the involvement of the US in basically creating Iran as it is today.

        Once you got that down, you have got to understand how religion and culture works there. Simply saying “kill the masters” won’t work, we did that with Saddam Hussein and after wars and deaths, shit was and is worse.

        A LOT more will be needed to change counties like these for the better, and simply talking about breaking the paradox of tolerance won’t do.

        • Arghblarg@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          5 months ago

          No, you’re totally right – there’s no easy way out of this. But how does one work towards a peaceful solution, and overcome multi-generational, cultural, ‘religion’-based attitudes shaping foreign policies (I place ‘religion’ in quotes because I believe that religion is just used, by all sides, as justification for intolerance and abuse of power) that insists on conflict? BTW I’m referring to both Iran and the ‘Western Powers’ here.

          Simply trying to ‘kill the masters’ would only create a vacuum for whomever is waiting in the wings to take their place, and just perpetuate the cycle… sigh. I dunno.

    • metaStatic@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      5 months ago

      Martyr or Murder there is no middle ground. The masters tools will never be used to dismantle his house.

      • jopepa@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        5 months ago

        First of all, I respect your point of view and I share your anger. That said, if there’s no middle ground then any bloody revolution will turn into another Reign of Terror. Peaceful revolutions are a fairly recent phenomenon and violent revolutions have historically been shifting the power from violent leaders to violent revolutionaries who themselves become violent leaders. There needs to be a middle ground otherwise, it’s just changing the meat we collectively put in the grinder.

        • metaStatic@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          5 months ago

          don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

          There are places where peaceful revolution is possible and then there’s Iran. When your opposition can and will kill every last one of you there is no time to waste on being civil.

          • jopepa@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            5 months ago

            Reporting these incidents makes martyrs of Iran’s victims. I believe the overwhelming majority of people everywhere want justice, human rights, and peace for everyone. People are affected by news like this.

            We live in a global society. The NGOs and governments that work with Iran give them the resources that allow this kind of power imbalance to begin with. The good and imperfect way is unfortunately martyrdom, journalism, organized resistance, and patience through the horrors for peace to come.

            In every war both sides gain their own martyrs, and that’s what makes so many of them perpetual even after the fighting stops. That’s not perfect or good.

    • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      16
      ·
      5 months ago

      People abuse other People. Concepts and ideas do not. Religion is not remotely involved in anything a fundamentalist does except as their excuse.

        • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          11
          ·
          5 months ago

          Where as Religion is the only reason we have most of the ancient texts we have since the monks copied them, your claim is patently false. In addition to the suffering being exclusively done by People often against the direct instructions of their religion’s teachings, perhaps you bias need a bit of fine tuning.

          • Infiltrated_ad8271@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            5 months ago

            A good reverse example would be the old testament, which speaks openly of killing sodomites, but western cultures are by far the most progressive on gay rights; even the vatican itself is more tolerant than much of the world.

            • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              5 months ago

              Can’t take a book edited for political reasons literally. Example: the religious prohibition to pork was about Cholera and not an edict from on high.

              • The Assman@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                5 months ago

                Religion is not remotely involved in anything a fundamentalist does except as their excuse.

                How does this not apply to literature? Without religion people would still be brutally murdering each other, but they wouldn’t have written anything down without religion? How does that make sense.

                • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  5 months ago

                  Never stated anything of the sort. But then the fact that you obviously are unaware that there once was no printing press and all copies of any text we very expensive to make thus only the devotion of certain religious sects allowed us to have ancient written works. So it makes sense that you don’t understand the statement.

      • GBU_28@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        5 months ago

        It is the vehicle of their abuse.

        You ain’t walking across the USA, but you can easily drive it in 3 days.

          • GBU_28@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            5 months ago

            You know what I meant. Imagine if the list of fundamentalist psychos was the same length as the walked across the USA list, compared to the possible list of people who drive across.

            Religion is a catalyst, an enabler of violence. It provides a framework, and a justification. This empowers those who would otherwise bite their tongues to act.

              • GBU_28@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                5 months ago

                Yawn. You have limited abilities for reasoning. Good luck out there!

                • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  5 months ago

                  <yawns /> You have limited knowledge and experience thus must resort to childish insults in an attempt to compensate for your lack of wit. Study more out there.

  • dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    5 months ago

    Huh. Turns out wanting a theocracy in your country because you were tired of royalty was even worse for everyone.

  • NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    5 months ago

    OK I’m just saying we may have found the silver lining in the israel-Gaza war.

    Iran has so many irons in the fire right now,they can’t focus on them all, and this movement might get another chance.

    Probably not but it’s nice to dream

  • Reddit_Is_Trash@reddthat.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    5 months ago

    Fuck their religion. And they wonder why the US wants to spread western values.

    Their values have no place in this world. None. It’s not “culture” it’s exerting control over other people who have no recourse. It’s an invalid way to live

    • BrikoXOPM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      5 months ago

      Not so different from other extreme religious positions, like hate and violence towards LGBT or removing personal freedom with banning abortion coming from Christianity. Or Hindutva terror coming from Hinduism.