This is a post complaining about an operating system. Someone else recommends an operating system that doesn’t have this problem. Where’s the circlejerk?
It’s just a well-known trope of Lemmy nowadays that whenever any issue with any OS is reported, rather than providing advice for the situation the default response is often “FUCK [OS], USE LINUX”. It’s become so common that it’s essentially now viewed by non-Linux users as Linux users just engaging in a circlejerk of their favourite OS. I know that circlejerks usually require more than one person but the Lemmy hivemind tends to respond this way, so a single comment (that is usually highly upvoted) is viewed as a circlejerk.
I mean, if you want to move away from Microsoft’s very weird UI principles and towards an operating system where you’ll never be placed in this situation, then that seems to me to be very reasonable advice?
Like, in all seriousness, what advice can anyone give to this individual? No one anticipates Microsoft making the changes OP wants. This is a problem that doesn’t exist in Linux and for cultural and technical reasons effectively can never happen within Linux. Linux is free and will remain free forever.
I live in the real world. I know that people’s employers might not support them using Linux. However, why is the anger in this situation always pointed at those who are trying to offer a better alternative and never those preventing a switch to said alternative?
I mean, if you want to move away from Microsoft’s very weird UI principles and towards an operating system where you’ll never be placed in this situation, then that seems to me to be very reasonable advice?
Which Linux version?
Also “never be placed in this situation” is a dumb thing to say because Linux is a shell of a consumer operating system compared to Windows.
I’d recommend Linux Mint or Fedora most likely. Debian if you don’t need bleeding edge software.
Never is obviously being hyperbolic. However, any significant part of a user’s environment is going to be an open-source democratic project. You are less likely to go down bad roads when devs are questioning the intentions of their fellow community members than their corporate paymasters.
Furthermore, in the instance that a tool you use does go in an unpopular direction, the ease of forking FOSS projects means there’s a very good chance of someone maintaining a fork or even creating a whole spin-off project that resembles what you want. There are countless examples of this throughout the history of Linux.
Can you help clarify your final point to me? Just because as someone who uses Linux exclusively I find it far more user-friendly than Windows. AFAICT the only thing it fails to offer over Windows is that it doesn’t have some particular software packages e.g. Microsoft Office or Photoshop. But that’s nothing to do with Linux as an operating system. That’s solely an issue of their developers not porting to Linux. If there’s something I’ve overlooked I’d appreciate you explaining it to me.
Nothing in Windows is user-UNfriendly though. Your average user will struggle with linux exponentially more than with windows. For your regular person, Windows is as user friendly as it gets. You plug in a device, any device, and it works. You install a program, any program, and it works. How is linux any more user friendly?
I’m sorry but I have to disagree. Windows can often be pretty hostile to the user. Indeed OP’s meme is probably my favourite example. For years now settings on Windows have been oddly divided or duplicated between the ‘Settings’ app, which a lot of people struggle with, and the Control Panel which many people had grown accustomed to.
Further examples of user un-friendliness:
Convoluted set-up process involving multiple consents regarding user telemetry. The ‘opt-out’ options for which are often minimised or otherwise obscured.
Installing applications by default by paid corporate sponsors e.g. Candy Crush.
Moving traditionally-owned software packages to SaaS e.g. Microsoft Office -> Office 365.
Heavy pressure towards setting up an online Microsoft Account and associating that with your local user account.
Taking away customisation options such as moving the position of the Taskbar with no discernible benefit or alternative.
It’s impossible to configure Windows search to open links in any browser other than Microsoft Edge. In spite of the existence of a ‘default browser’ setting.
Attempts at vendor lock-in through services such as OneDrive.
Storage bloat and excessive hardware requirements (TPM modules) forcing people to buy new hardware or lose support.
Some historical examples:
Windows 8 and the Metro design language.
Aero performing terribly on Windows Vista.
In my honest opinion, the only ways Windows is more user-friendly are not even intrinsic benefits to the operating system they produce. They are:
People have grown accustomed to the Windows ‘paradigm’. It’s not necessarily easier but it’s what they’ve grown accustomed to. Regardless this paradigm is frequently replicated (and improved) by environments such as KDE.
People don’t have to install Windows on their own PC, as it comes installed by the manufacturer. Frankly the install process for most Linux distros is far, far more pleasant anyway. Most Linux distros will provide you a Live Environment on a USB so you can experiment with the entire UX without having to install anything. You can learn the new way of doing things and gauge hardware compatibility all from running off a USB. Furthermore, it’s common for distros to include an installer option which scans your hardware and installs all relevant drivers, even non-FOSS ones, whilst installing the OS. Windows doesn’t do this! If I install Windows, I have to boot for the first time before Nvidia drivers get installed.
If you gave someone a pre-installed Linux environment they’d get used to it very quickly. The only thing that’s stopping manufacturers like Dell from offering this as an option is that it’d worsen their relationship with Microsoft.
That sucks. Laptops are always a bit trickier. Linux works flawlessly on most things I install it on these days. Manjaros been on my desktop for the past 4 years.
Install Linux, be done with the Microsoft windows shit.
Wow, I had to scroll past 5 comments to see a Linux circlejerk. What’s happening to Lemmy??
This is a post complaining about an operating system. Someone else recommends an operating system that doesn’t have this problem. Where’s the circlejerk?
It’s just a well-known trope of Lemmy nowadays that whenever any issue with any OS is reported, rather than providing advice for the situation the default response is often “FUCK [OS], USE LINUX”. It’s become so common that it’s essentially now viewed by non-Linux users as Linux users just engaging in a circlejerk of their favourite OS. I know that circlejerks usually require more than one person but the Lemmy hivemind tends to respond this way, so a single comment (that is usually highly upvoted) is viewed as a circlejerk.
I mean, if you want to move away from Microsoft’s very weird UI principles and towards an operating system where you’ll never be placed in this situation, then that seems to me to be very reasonable advice?
Like, in all seriousness, what advice can anyone give to this individual? No one anticipates Microsoft making the changes OP wants. This is a problem that doesn’t exist in Linux and for cultural and technical reasons effectively can never happen within Linux. Linux is free and will remain free forever.
I live in the real world. I know that people’s employers might not support them using Linux. However, why is the anger in this situation always pointed at those who are trying to offer a better alternative and never those preventing a switch to said alternative?
Which Linux version?
Also “never be placed in this situation” is a dumb thing to say because Linux is a shell of a consumer operating system compared to Windows.
I’d recommend Linux Mint or Fedora most likely. Debian if you don’t need bleeding edge software.
Never is obviously being hyperbolic. However, any significant part of a user’s environment is going to be an open-source democratic project. You are less likely to go down bad roads when devs are questioning the intentions of their fellow community members than their corporate paymasters.
Furthermore, in the instance that a tool you use does go in an unpopular direction, the ease of forking FOSS projects means there’s a very good chance of someone maintaining a fork or even creating a whole spin-off project that resembles what you want. There are countless examples of this throughout the history of Linux.
Can you help clarify your final point to me? Just because as someone who uses Linux exclusively I find it far more user-friendly than Windows. AFAICT the only thing it fails to offer over Windows is that it doesn’t have some particular software packages e.g. Microsoft Office or Photoshop. But that’s nothing to do with Linux as an operating system. That’s solely an issue of their developers not porting to Linux. If there’s something I’ve overlooked I’d appreciate you explaining it to me.
Nothing in Windows is user-UNfriendly though. Your average user will struggle with linux exponentially more than with windows. For your regular person, Windows is as user friendly as it gets. You plug in a device, any device, and it works. You install a program, any program, and it works. How is linux any more user friendly?
I’m sorry but I have to disagree. Windows can often be pretty hostile to the user. Indeed OP’s meme is probably my favourite example. For years now settings on Windows have been oddly divided or duplicated between the ‘Settings’ app, which a lot of people struggle with, and the Control Panel which many people had grown accustomed to.
Further examples of user un-friendliness:
Some historical examples:
In my honest opinion, the only ways Windows is more user-friendly are not even intrinsic benefits to the operating system they produce. They are:
If you gave someone a pre-installed Linux environment they’d get used to it very quickly. The only thing that’s stopping manufacturers like Dell from offering this as an option is that it’d worsen their relationship with Microsoft.
They are the vegans of OSes. You know why they do it, you know it’s not for everyone, yet they have to announce it every time.
I’m here to be jerked off by a Linux user, can anyone let me join in?
My manjaro install broke 5 hours after I installed it. My latop speakers never worked…
Don’t use manjaro mate. Install something stable like Debian or Fedora.
Found the problem because of which kde was not booting. Still have no speakers but that’s how it is I guess.
Is pipewire with pulse audio properly configured? Check pavucontrol and tell me if you need any more help
I got help on the manjaro forum. had to edit two different configs. Everything works now.
If you do that, people will claim that your new problems originate from slow updating OS and will say that arch is the answer.
Then people will say that the problems you experience in arch are non existent on stable distros. Forever.
Sometimes, windows is just a better OS.
That sucks. Laptops are always a bit trickier. Linux works flawlessly on most things I install it on these days. Manjaros been on my desktop for the past 4 years.
I reinstalled and am now making backups but my speakers still don’t work :(