There are plenty of people who are interested in socialism, but if they show up to a socialist org and get called a cracker they’ll leave. It’s an insult.
We aren’t a fucking org. No one is joining an org to come in and start swinging minute 1 about how akshually Stalin was Hitler unless they are joining an org that holds that stance to begin with. If someone does join an ML org and do that, they get what they fucking deserve.
But we are not an org, and them coming into some thread to take shots does not represent remotely the same opportunity to us that a new member does to an organizer.
I didn’t say we’re an org, and I didn’t say this asshole shouldn’t have been banned.
I said allowing race-based insults, even those directed at white people, is extremely online behavior. You can see this because it’s not tolerated in person.
It’s not tolerated in person with an org member. If you’re at a counterprotest or whatever and a PoC comrade calls a fascist on the other side of the line a cracker, there typically won’t be a disciplinary hearing over it. Your comment is useless equivocating because it completely obscures the variety of different group dynamics that appear in person. It’s not as though “cracker” was first said to a white person over AOL in the 90s.
Cracker is used on here all the time; it’s not exclusively directed at reactionaries. And of course one of the big problems with race-based insults (or insults based on any other group characteristic) is that even if the intent is only to insult someone deserving of insult, comrades who are also in the group hear it, too.
I’m white and getting offended at “cracker” is comical. Furthermore, even if it’s not exclusively directed at reactionaries, you are in essence conceding that the hypothetical you posed at the start is simply worthless.
“Why would anyone feel insulted by my insult I’m using to rip on them” is not convincing. Sure, it has maybe the same sting as calling someone an asshole, but when someone is checking a place out, that’s not going to help them stick around. If someone kept calling other comrades assholes we’d tell them to knock if off.
the hypothetical you posed at the start
I didn’t pose any hypothetical, I said casually insulting white people based on their race is not tolerated in any real life org. It’s extremely online.
You are by this point correcting me because you are completely failing to follow the conversational thread.
“Why would anyone feel insulted by my insult I’m using to rip on them” is not convincing.
Remember the context, that being “but if someone calls a white fash a cracker, a white comrade’s feelings are hurt” which means that the person who I think is being ridiculous is not the person actually being targeted with the insult.
I didn’t pose any hypothetical
Do you not know that conditional statements are usually hypotheticals?
There are plenty of people who are interested in socialism, but if they show up to a socialist org and get called a cracker they’ll leave. It’s an insult.
That bold part is a hypothetical situation
You can’t be this sniveling and then completely fail to follow the conversation at a rudimentary level on top of correcting others on it, it’s just insufferable. I doubt it’s even a language issue because people speaking a second language usually have the good sense or conscientiousness to check if they are missing something should they have an understanding so at odds with who they are speaking to.
You are extremely online if you don’t see how insulting members of your group, then insulting them again if they take issue, is bad for the group. No amount of will change that.
I whined about cracker being a slur and those mean ol Hexbears just called me a cracker more instead of debating me
We aren’t a fucking org. No one is joining an org to come in and start swinging minute 1 about how akshually Stalin was Hitler unless they are joining an org that holds that stance to begin with. If someone does join an ML org and do that, they get what they fucking deserve.
But we are not an org, and them coming into some thread to take shots does not represent remotely the same opportunity to us that a new member does to an organizer.
I didn’t say we’re an org, and I didn’t say this asshole shouldn’t have been banned.
I said allowing race-based insults, even those directed at white people, is extremely online behavior. You can see this because it’s not tolerated in person.
It’s not tolerated in person with an org member. If you’re at a counterprotest or whatever and a PoC comrade calls a fascist on the other side of the line a cracker, there typically won’t be a disciplinary hearing over it. Your comment is useless equivocating because it completely obscures the variety of different group dynamics that appear in person. It’s not as though “cracker” was first said to a white person over AOL in the 90s.
Cracker is used on here all the time; it’s not exclusively directed at reactionaries. And of course one of the big problems with race-based insults (or insults based on any other group characteristic) is that even if the intent is only to insult someone deserving of insult, comrades who are also in the group hear it, too.
I’m white and getting offended at “cracker” is comical. Furthermore, even if it’s not exclusively directed at reactionaries, you are in essence conceding that the hypothetical you posed at the start is simply worthless.
“Why would anyone feel insulted by my insult I’m using to rip on them” is not convincing. Sure, it has maybe the same sting as calling someone an asshole, but when someone is checking a place out, that’s not going to help them stick around. If someone kept calling other comrades assholes we’d tell them to knock if off.
I didn’t pose any hypothetical, I said casually insulting white people based on their race is not tolerated in any real life org. It’s extremely online.
You are by this point correcting me because you are completely failing to follow the conversational thread.
Remember the context, that being “but if someone calls a white fash a cracker, a white comrade’s feelings are hurt” which means that the person who I think is being ridiculous is not the person actually being targeted with the insult.
Do you not know that conditional statements are usually hypotheticals?
That bold part is a hypothetical situation
You can’t be this sniveling and then completely fail to follow the conversation at a rudimentary level on top of correcting others on it, it’s just insufferable. I doubt it’s even a language issue because people speaking a second language usually have the good sense or conscientiousness to check if they are missing something should they have an understanding so at odds with who they are speaking to.
You are extremely online if you don’t see how insulting members of your group, then insulting them again if they take issue, is bad for the group. No amount of
will change that.
“Members of your group”
There it is again, just sliding the subject around freely because you have no point if you talk about the same thing for two consecutive comments.