The death of 3 U.S. service members is forcing President Joe Biden to weigh military action that could carry risks of escalation and heavy political consequences.
Power, opportunism, thirst for war, corruption (not oil though). Plenty of reasons for this war.
Your logic has a flaw though: It’s not like Saddam would have just stopped doing his thing in 2003 had he not been removed from power. The country was a powder keg anyway, so perhaps it would have ended up just like Syria eventually (I can’t imagine the Arab Spring leaving it alone) - or perhaps we would have seen another war between it and Iran. Another possibility would have been Iraq attacking a neighbor other than Iran again, perhaps at a time when they weren’t expecting a harsh American response (e.g. under a Democratic US presidency).
None of this excuses that Bush and Blair made up reasons to invade the country nor the incompetent handling of it afterwards that led to most of the up to one million dead post-Saddam, but let’s not pretend that everything would have been rosy had the second Gulf War not happened.
Why are you blaming Syria on America, even though it was internal unrest sparked by the Syrian government torturing a bunch of kids for anti-Assad graffiti? This resulted in increasingly larger protests, which were crushed with incredible violence by the regime, which in turn led to mass defections from the Syrian army as more and more soldiers were unwilling to kill their fellow citizens, creating factions that fought both against the Syrian government and among each other.
America caused none of this. In fact, it’s the Syrian government that claimed foreign agents were responsible for the initial protests. It’s not a good look to repeat this obvious and transparent lie.
Do you think the internal unrest came from nothing?
The Iraq invasion lead to over a million Iraqi refugees fleeing to Syria and the 2006 war between Lebanon and Israel (triggered by Israel’s illegal occupation of Lebanese territory that only the US recognizes) which lead to a further 100,000 refugees feeling to Syria. Then, of course, there was the broader region with America “we came, we saw, he died, haha!” utterly destroying Libya and turning it from the most prosperous African country to one that has open slave auctions. America has utterly destroyed that region (the Middle East and North Africa, I mean), Syria is just another country on the chopping block (Yemen too, now. You like that too?)
Now, were there literal foreign agents that triggered the initial protests? Doubtful. Did America pour grease on the fire once it started? Obviously, it literally backed the opposition groups and inflamed the civil war! There were almost 20,000 air strikes! There was very clearly a regime change operation underway, even if the initial trigger was only indirectly from the US destroying the Middle East.
And did US intervention in Syria help? Or did it make everything worse? I think we both know the answer.
The Iraq invasion lead to over a million Iraqi refugees fleeing to Syria
Irrelevant. The kids Assad had tortured belonged to important Syrian families, not any refugees in the country.
the 2006 war between Lebanon and Israel (triggered by Israel’s illegal occupation of Lebanese territory that only the US recognizes)
Also irrelevant for the same reason and this land is only occupied, because it was used by Syrian forces for artillery shelling of Israel during the Six Days war. While the occupation isn’t widely recognized, I really see no point in portraying it as a bad thing. Israel was attacked, they took a piece of land away from the enemy that would have made future attacks easier. Hardly an evil plot anyone needs to lose sleep over, other than Syria and Israel.
Not to mention, the 2006 war wasn’t a war between Lebanon and Israel, it was one between Hezbollah and Israel - and certainly not one over the Golan Heights, which the terrorist group couldn’t care less about.
utterly destroying Libya and turning it from the most prosperous African country to one that has open slave auctions
Libya saw an uprising that was supported by a Western coalition based on a UN resolution. Blaming America for the ensuing chaos makes no sense. It was morally the right choice to support the rebels.
Yemen too, now
Why blame America when Iran is responsible? Iran-backed and -directed Houthis fired first, including at American ships (but anything that floats in these waters). Again, it makes no sense to blame America for shooting back here, especially since everyone else, except for the UK, is either unwilling or unable (like China) to do so.
Back to Syria:
Did America pour grease on the fire once it started? Obviously, it literally backed the opposition groups and inflamed the civil war!
I don’t think you are aware of this, but in a single prison, Assad has had about as many people murdered as died in the entire war in Gaza so far:
Are you really blaming America for supporting groups that fight against such a monster?
There were almost 20,000 air strikes!
Let me do some whataboutism for a change: There were 45,000 Russian air strikes until 2019 alone, which, unlike American air strikes, primarily targeted civilians:
Irrelevant. The kids Assad had tortured belonged to important Syrian families, not any refugees in the country.
Over a million refugees puts strain onto the economy and government, which then triggers unrest, which then triggers backlash from the government. Assad wasn’t justified in torturing kids, but the civil war wasn’t just started or sustained because of torture.
While the occupation isn’t widely recognized, I really see no point in portraying it as a bad thing.
It’s literally stolen land and that’s why it isn’t widely recognized, and since only the US and Israel (really the 51 States) recognize it then it’s clear who is to blame.
Libya saw an uprising that was supported by a Western coalition based on a UN resolution. Blaming America for the ensuing chaos makes no sense. It was morally the right choice to support the rebels.
And now look at Libya. Still think it was the right choice? Do you like the open slave auctions?
but anything that floats in these waters
An outright lie. They’re attacking ships that do trade with Israel (and now the US and UK, since they’ve made their unconditional support for Israel very clear)
Are you really blaming America for supporting groups that fight against such a monster?
I’m crediting America for it. And now look at Syria! Is it better off now? Oh, I guess you think it is!
Let me do some whataboutism for a change: There were 45,000 Russian air strikes until 2019 alone, which, unlike American air strikes, primarily targeted civilians:
In support of the government. I thought it was okay when the government invites foreign militaries!
There are now parts of Syria with democracy and human rights:
And there are other parts which are still semi-active war zones, which have even less democracy and human rights than before the war.
Up to one million people are dead because of the War on Iraq. You spit on their graves when you say life is better.
The upper estimates for the number of people killed under Saddam Hussein are about one million as well. Now what?
So America is about as bad as Saddam Hussein?
Then what was the fucking point? What did we do any of that for? Do you expect them to thank us?
Power, opportunism, thirst for war, corruption (not oil though). Plenty of reasons for this war.
Your logic has a flaw though: It’s not like Saddam would have just stopped doing his thing in 2003 had he not been removed from power. The country was a powder keg anyway, so perhaps it would have ended up just like Syria eventually (I can’t imagine the Arab Spring leaving it alone) - or perhaps we would have seen another war between it and Iran. Another possibility would have been Iraq attacking a neighbor other than Iran again, perhaps at a time when they weren’t expecting a harsh American response (e.g. under a Democratic US presidency).
None of this excuses that Bush and Blair made up reasons to invade the country nor the incompetent handling of it afterwards that led to most of the up to one million dead post-Saddam, but let’s not pretend that everything would have been rosy had the second Gulf War not happened.
Right, that just happened for no reason. Not like the US directly instigated the collapse of stability in the region. 🙄
Let’s not pretend I said that.
Why are you blaming Syria on America, even though it was internal unrest sparked by the Syrian government torturing a bunch of kids for anti-Assad graffiti? This resulted in increasingly larger protests, which were crushed with incredible violence by the regime, which in turn led to mass defections from the Syrian army as more and more soldiers were unwilling to kill their fellow citizens, creating factions that fought both against the Syrian government and among each other.
America caused none of this. In fact, it’s the Syrian government that claimed foreign agents were responsible for the initial protests. It’s not a good look to repeat this obvious and transparent lie.
Do you think the internal unrest came from nothing?
The Iraq invasion lead to over a million Iraqi refugees fleeing to Syria and the 2006 war between Lebanon and Israel (triggered by Israel’s illegal occupation of Lebanese territory that only the US recognizes) which lead to a further 100,000 refugees feeling to Syria. Then, of course, there was the broader region with America “we came, we saw, he died, haha!” utterly destroying Libya and turning it from the most prosperous African country to one that has open slave auctions. America has utterly destroyed that region (the Middle East and North Africa, I mean), Syria is just another country on the chopping block (Yemen too, now. You like that too?)
Now, were there literal foreign agents that triggered the initial protests? Doubtful. Did America pour grease on the fire once it started? Obviously, it literally backed the opposition groups and inflamed the civil war! There were almost 20,000 air strikes! There was very clearly a regime change operation underway, even if the initial trigger was only indirectly from the US destroying the Middle East.
And did US intervention in Syria help? Or did it make everything worse? I think we both know the answer.
Irrelevant. The kids Assad had tortured belonged to important Syrian families, not any refugees in the country.
Also irrelevant for the same reason and this land is only occupied, because it was used by Syrian forces for artillery shelling of Israel during the Six Days war. While the occupation isn’t widely recognized, I really see no point in portraying it as a bad thing. Israel was attacked, they took a piece of land away from the enemy that would have made future attacks easier. Hardly an evil plot anyone needs to lose sleep over, other than Syria and Israel.
Not to mention, the 2006 war wasn’t a war between Lebanon and Israel, it was one between Hezbollah and Israel - and certainly not one over the Golan Heights, which the terrorist group couldn’t care less about.
Libya saw an uprising that was supported by a Western coalition based on a UN resolution. Blaming America for the ensuing chaos makes no sense. It was morally the right choice to support the rebels.
Why blame America when Iran is responsible? Iran-backed and -directed Houthis fired first, including at American ships (but anything that floats in these waters). Again, it makes no sense to blame America for shooting back here, especially since everyone else, except for the UK, is either unwilling or unable (like China) to do so.
Back to Syria:
I don’t think you are aware of this, but in a single prison, Assad has had about as many people murdered as died in the entire war in Gaza so far:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sednaya_Prison
Are you really blaming America for supporting groups that fight against such a monster?
Let me do some whataboutism for a change: There were 45,000 Russian air strikes until 2019 alone, which, unlike American air strikes, primarily targeted civilians:
https://airwars.org/conflict/russian-military-in-syria/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_intervention_in_the_Syrian_civil_war#Civilian_casualties_and_war_crimes
No, I don’t think we can agree on this either. There are now parts of Syria with democracy and human rights:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_Administration_of_North_and_East_Syria
Over a million refugees puts strain onto the economy and government, which then triggers unrest, which then triggers backlash from the government. Assad wasn’t justified in torturing kids, but the civil war wasn’t just started or sustained because of torture.
It’s literally stolen land and that’s why it isn’t widely recognized, and since only the US and Israel (really the 51 States) recognize it then it’s clear who is to blame.
And now look at Libya. Still think it was the right choice? Do you like the open slave auctions?
An outright lie. They’re attacking ships that do trade with Israel (and now the US and UK, since they’ve made their unconditional support for Israel very clear)
I’m crediting America for it. And now look at Syria! Is it better off now? Oh, I guess you think it is!
In support of the government. I thought it was okay when the government invites foreign militaries!
And there are other parts which are still semi-active war zones, which have even less democracy and human rights than before the war.
I guess that’s worth it to you.