This kind of gatekeeping and elitism is bad for Lemmy and for FOSS.
It makes this community a less welcoming place and leaves new folks with a bad first impression. Much better to be welcoming and let people learn/see the benefits of FOSS at their own pace.
I’d given up on lemmy because every so I had tried was unfinished and unpolished. I tried sync and finally felt like the user experience wasn’t getting in the way of content.
I’d love to support foss, if a genuinely comparable experience existed.
I’m glad to say that sync has revived my interest in lemmy.
You should check out Thunder, even if you gave it a try at some point - it’s super polished and it’s gotten even better week after week. In my opinion it has the best compact mode of all the lemmy clients, as long as you don’t mind swipe actions!
I was using Thunder last week until Sync’s open beta got approved and the User Experience and the interface of Thunder is nowhere near Sync. It’s a night and day difference, and a difference that would have made me use Lemmy less and less.
Thunder is like a month old - it’s still growing and will continue to improve with the community’s help :) if you think anything could be improved, definitely shout it out on the GitHub page!
I understand that it’s new, and it is definitely the best FOSS Lemmy app out of the dozens that I used. But it has a very long way to go to achieve the same level of User Experience that Sync has. It’s not even close and I don’t think anything bar a major UI/UX rehaul could fix that.
Dozens?? Do tell.
Not OP, but I’ve tried thunder. It’s OK. Sync is light years above all other clients I’ve tried. (same with reddit as well) swipe actions? Sync is the king of swipe actions.
I mostly meant if OP was interested in FOSS :) Sync has been fine too in my short time with it today, but personally I’m still quite taken with Thunder. Excited that all the Sync fans are excited!
Back in the reddit days, Apollo had the best swipe actions out there. Sad to see it gone
Never used Apollo (don’t use ios) so I wound assume that means Apollo and Sync swipe actions are the same.
IMO FOSS has really great offerings when it comes to libraries or other highly technical code.
But something about either the community or incentive structure results in sub-par UI/UX. Obviously not a rule, but definitely a trend I’ve noticed.
Don’t forget the community’s reaction to comments like yours, why down vote him if he’s stating the obvious? FOSS projects often focus so much on technical features because everyone wants to flex their code-fu, but nobody gives enough time to UI/UX. Just look at pretty much every Lemmy web frontend, fugly webpages with early 2000s look-and-feel, usually slow and/or buggy, and with little to no user feedback.
I’ve seen it for years and years now, and I can only conclude that it’s down to the kinds of people who are attracted by these kinds of projects.
They’re tech literate at a professional level by necessity in order to engage with these things at an early time in their development, and this seems to drive a mentality that makes UX design kind of an afterthought, since they already know how to do the things they want the software to do, and they’re not focused on how less tech literate users will handle it.
Then you add in the small minority of gatekeepers that wind up in every community, who feel that a larger, more generalized userbase would be invading their niche community, and you end up with stuff like the Linux forums where asking a simple question would get you a series of remarks that essentially boil down to “go fuck yourself, you should know how to do it already.”
I feel like the people concerned with UI/UX come into these kinds of projects later on after they’ve matured a little, rather than right from start, and this causes resistance to their changes because the userbase is already entrenched in the current UX, especially from the gatekeeper folk in the community who see a higher tech literacy threshold as a good thing.
Lemmy is just new. The best desktops that exist are FOSS.
That’s very subjective. I have yet to find a Linux desktop I like as much as MacOS, especially when it comes to WACOM drivers. The stylus response time/curve almost always feels wrong.
Also, I’ve worked with designers who can get something that looks and feels fully professional on a first pass, so it’s not just newness for Lemmy.
I’m glad to say that sync has revived my interest in lemmy.
Seconded
It’s been one year of this conversation, but I just found it now.
Sync has also made me use Lemmy more often, but I was still missing a good web environment until recently when I started using photon. It is the best web experience I had using Lemmy and now I’m using as a progressive web app.
Photon repository here! Give it a star or start contributing to it.
Memmy is gr8
Good for you, I personally prefer Thunder
FOSS doesn’t need your support. You misunderstand the relationship. FOSS is looking out for you.
I see the upvotes but I cannot support this comment. FOSS could use a lot more support at every level, including users.
Username checks out. Wait I know this face from masto - I think I follow you!
This is why I unsubscribed from the Android community. I love Android, I use nothing but Linux at home and really appreciate open source software.
But the FOSS…enthusiasm is starting to border on zealotry. It’s getting really unpleasant.
Try to tell the Linux users on here that you prefer to use Windows…
I use Linux as my daily driver, yet I 100% believe Linux is overrated. It’s great if you’re willing to put in the work to get it working well, or maybe if you have someone else to do all your tech support for you, but it’s just not a good option for the majority of people.
I hate when people keep trying to push it on Windows users, especially when they go on about how “easy” it is. It’s not. And doing that will get people to try it out with high expectations and then get disappointed when they try it out and that’s not the case.
I honestly feel like people who say this stuff either haven’t tried Linux since 2008 or went straight to Arch.
I use Manjaro as my daily driver and I never need to fix the system. It really does just work, and these a bunch of disyros out there that do.
The only thing you might find terrible is trying to run windows programs on Linux, to which I say: dual boot! Even with all the progress Proton, Lutris etc. have made, it’s still way easier to just boot into windows on the occasion you want to play games or whatever.
I switched to Linux last year, and I used Linux Mint, which people say is the easiest, and then KDE Neon which was definitely way better than Linux Mint but it’s still not easy. I’m fine with it, but I could never imagine my parents or my friends trying to use it without help.
I love Linux. I love the flexibility it gives me and I enjoy tinkering when I feel like it and having something rock solid and reliable when I don’t. I don’t game on the PC, so this works out great for me. However, my use case isn’t everyone else’s, and part of the idea of giving people freedom to use their computer the way they want is accepting that sometimes they want to use their computer in a way that you don’t like.
Maybe that means using a proprietary operating system. Maybe it means using a search engine that you don’t like. But that is what works for them, and sometimes I think the open source people operate on the fallacy of “there’s two types of people, those who use FOSS and those who haven’t found FOSS yet”, and it’s just so obnoxious.
You think people go nuts when you tell them you prefer WIndows? Wait until you see their heads spin when I tell them that while I use Arch Linux, I also use Google Chrome, Telegram, Spotify, and Discord…
God yes this is so freaking annoying.
As much as I adore FOSS and hold it near to my heart; Most FOSS software just doesn’t have a lot of polish. That isn’t a fault; but some of the zealots take it that way; and that last 5% of polish is sometimes required, and is absolutely critical to some users’ workflows.
I had to leave the Linux memes community because I swear nearly every post was shitting on Windows. Yes, I get it. Windows isn’t all that great. But, much like Ios, it just works for what I need. And I haven’t had any issues that weren’t ny fault with it.
If the game I play most, and the number one reason why i go on my pc, works on Windows, but won’t work on Linux. Which OS is better for me?
I thought all this software war crap era was over. That was shit I cared about when I was 14 or something. Just let it herself use what they want and explain the benefits of alternatives, only if they care.
I’m surprised they don’t shit on macOS too lol
I tell myself that I like MacOS as it was my favourite desktop for years. Honestly though, it is the worst of the three at this point.
Honestly same, but I think a lot of those people are talking highly of their privacy policy, so they turn a blind eye. It’s honestly funny when you see some of them being all like "Linux is significantly better because it gives you absolute freedom.
Then, proceed to use Ios.
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Or Chrome over Firefox
This drives me nuts. I like Chrome. It’s simple, it’s fast, the extensions I want run on it (for now), and I love the Google Account Sync because I have an Android phone. This greatly pisses off people for whatever reason, despite the fact I’ve never had a bad opinion about Firefox and love what they’re doing too, and I never criticize anyone for choosing Firefox.
As with everything open source communities need nuance and understanding, otherwise they start to feel like cults.
For whatever reason? They’re trying to DRM the internet lol. You’re certainly entitled to your opinion but there are some pretty big reasons to be mad at Google on a good day. Nobody should take that out on you but I understand the frustration. People letting things slide because it doesn’t bother them specifically until it’s too late is how everything keeps getting worse.
There’s no denying that WEI is evil. It may in fact be the feature that kills the Chrome Browser and gets Google fined into poverty.
But from a user standpoint; I get it. It Just Works. That polish built into Chrome that allows users to sync their browsing sessions across machines? It’s absolutely critical and required.
The FOSS community has this weird habit of requiring it’s users to make sacrifices to meet it’s values. Where that doesn’t harm the user, their workflows or their convenience in general; users are typically more than happy to do so.
However; A lot of FOSS and FLOSS projects tend to take ridiculous stances against certain kinds of polish features and will REFUSE to implement them no matter how many people ask. In my opinion; if you want a software project to succeed and overtake massive competition; that’s just stupid. Especially when it’s as easy as forking a repository and baking the “Controversial feature” into the user-friendly fork version.
If you want to provide a core piece of software and all; sure! Please do that! But a lot of projects don’t, and won’t spend any time on user experience at all; and any kind of work on the UX arises because something is inconvenient for the devs.
Worse is that oftentimes; the polish features that are being blanket denied and intentionally omitted from the software are in fact not that complicated to implement in a manner that runs consistent with the values of the FLOSS community. Sure; that means that perhaps you do have to host a lot of things yourself to make sure that you truly retain control over your data; but that’s actually pretty easy to learn how to do.
I do understand the limitations of the average FLOSS project. Unfortunately; a lot of FLOSS and FOSS devs are very quick to decide that they know the best, and will frequently and often refuse to listen to the user. That’s not better. It’s worse. At least when a user is a customer, they have some degree of influence and can exert some small force on development priorities. In the FLOSS community; you can donate every cent you have to a project and it does not necessarily guarantee that you will get a say, or even one request, fulfilled. For some users; that is not better, it is worse.
We still have a long way to go before we reach a society with the maximum amount of balance between beneficial qualities, and none of the negative qualities, of socialism and capitalism.
firefox can also sync your shit across browsers, I’d argue it does it better than chrome and it just works, I’d argue better than Chrome.
The nuance is recognising the Google hegemony is supported by choosing Chrome.
The understanding is realising what is happening to the open web as a result.
Your comment could be distilled down to “Let people have things” and is still getting downvotes lol. Yeesh.
firefox also has sync, better even than chrome you literally have a button for checking out what you browsed accross all devices, you can send tabs from. one device to another
Chrome has that too FYI
Linux fanaticism drives me crazy. I’m definitely not saying this is true of everyone, but the very nature of Linux seems to attract many elitists who are against unified vision, accessibility, and the unfun amount and types of work required for testing quality and compatibility. The result is that for the foreseeable future, desktop Linux is a mess for everyone, and unusable by the masses. And while I’ll get downvoted for saying that (and for saying the rest of this), I feel like many Linux fanatics secretly like that “normal peasants” can’t effectively use Linux.
I will take some corporate bullshit that works over only-half-working FOSS any day of the week. And I’m not shitting on FOSS itself. I’m just saying Linux is a disorganized and unfriendly mess. I never did get any sound whatsoever working on my i7-6700 and MSI gaming motherboard in Ubuntu, no matter how long I screwed around with Linux. And that was just to start. I wanted to love and use Linux, I really did.
Lastly, I just want to say I’m super happy with the other responses from Linux fans in this thread. They seem to understand that Linux is overrated, isn’t for everyone, doesn’t always work, and that Linux-pushers can be obnoxious. I super appreciate that understanding, fam.
100% agree. Going “haha, aren’t I COOL for NOT using this one popular app or software!?” contributes absolutely nothing and actively makes the community uninviting. I’m all for FOSS, but if a closed-source app is better than the FOSS options, I ain’t gonna knock on anybody for using it.
Also why even use an app outside of accessibility reasons? Been using Kbin on a mobile browser and it’s been a pretty good experience.
Also sometimes the FOSS software sucks compared to the non-open alternatives.
I don’t understand how promoting FOSS in favor of proprietary software is bad for FOSS?
This is not promoting FOSS. This is mocking closed-source/paid Lemmy clients.
Dood the automod is wild… people getting banned for, “suspicious activity”… and then there’s no way to ask the mods why the ban.
Btw, the automod is ONLY a service from us, that you are getting notified when something got removed from you. If you mean the @[email protected]
Sync is just so much more polished and feature-rich than all of these already… It’s exactly like how it was when it was for reddit, and it’s just one dev! I don’t mind at all paying for a fantastic app.
You guys are taking the justified corpo hate and extending it to talented individual devs just making a living.
I don’t get the point of this.
Since when did Sync masquerade itself as FOSS?
Just use whatever you want. Isn’t that why we’re all here?
Is the Sync noise getting to you? Just ignore it. It’s natural since the app just opened up and there were a significant amount of Reddit refugees that badly wanted their app back.
I think it’s more the Lemmy userbase having different expectations than that of the Reddit userbase, with Lemmy being such a shift from Reddit.
I agree. SYNC will bring tons of reddit users to lemmy. I for one welcome that change.
I could use this same logic to talk about your comment. People are free to dunk on other apps, so why not just mute the post?
Seems to me this has spawned a fair bit of discussion… Which is the actual reason we’re all here.
Sync has gotten a lot of buzz (I don’t understand why, even on Reddit, rif was always better anyway) and that’s always going to bring out the people who don’t agree, for one reason or another.
Don’t mistake an opinion you don’t share for anything beyond what it is. I could just as easily parrot your statement back: if you don’t think this discussion is productive, just ignore it. There’s plenty of other discussions to get involved with on Lemmy
Sync gained a big following because it had a core feature many many moons ago, when having constant cell service was much less common, it allowed you download and save hundreds of posts and all the comments while you were on wifi, so you could browse reddit offline, it did this automatically and in the background (based on your settings ) hence the name ‘Sync’. This was a killer feature back in the day, at least for me. As that became less of a need, the app continued to change and add a lot of nice features, like lots of customizations, random NSFW, a very good OLED dark mode, etc, so there was no point in switching to something else.
My .02¢
RiF better? Lmaooo
Did you use them both? I did not. I can say I loved RiF, but I’d never even heard of Sync until about a month ago. Be interested to hear the opinion of one who’d used both…
I have. A lot of it boils down to personal preference in how you prefer your app to behave and look like. Customization can only get you so far. UI aside, they were both pretty feature complete.
RiF was all I ever used. Never even heard of Sync until I migrated to Lemmy at the end of June. Fwiw, I found Connect rather quickly, and it feels almost exactly like RiF. Enough that it scratches the itch. I tried Sync for about an hour today… It’s fine enough… But I can’t figure out what it has that Connect doesn’t. Maybe it’s just that everyone who used Sync was just comfortable and didn’t want to change. I’m fine with it being a paid app, or subscription, or whatever dude decides to do to help support himself, too…I just don’t get the hubbub when there’s a perfectly excellent free alternative in Connect.
I will link my comment, which I had written for another person before. Sync for lemmy is currently in beta, so some things may be broken. But, most of it is still true. https://lemmy.ml/comment/834817
Yeah, Sync was fine, just nothing special for me. I’m pretty sure it’s mostly just people who want the same experience they had on Reddit.
I adapted to Voyager pretty quickly, and the only real issue I’ve had with it was that it didn’t handle it well when .world went down, but that’s improved enough now. I’m not the biggest fan of the swipe gestures, as they’ve made me accidentally vote on a lot of things without noticing, but it’s nothing I can’t get used to.
I don’t need it to be exactly like it was before. I’m satisfied with something simple that does the job.
Paid software absolutely has a place in the world. Evil companies producing evil software designed to build a monopoly and lock out FOSS apps do not. I don’t think Sync falls into the latter and I’m happy they’ve made the choice to be able to eat.
I am disliking this sentiment. I am on the Fediverse because Sync’s developer and many others were betrayed by Reddit and I wanted to show solidarity and to ‘punish’ Reddit by leaving. The Fediverse’s values are admirable, but I do not share them all. I believe in supporting good projects, even some that are private if they don’t pose a risk of destroying something bigger, and Sync is a good project that can be easily abandoned without consequences if something goes wrong.
The gatekeeping is so fucked up
To be fair, this should be the other way around. All these foss apps are the teletubbies because they’re clunky and have major bugs. Sync is the power ranger.
Tbh, I think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion. Part of FOSS and the internet in general is the ability to have choice over what you use and spend your time with. Just because Sync is out, doesn’t mean you can’t continue to use your FOSS apps. It just means that we now have an option for people who want to pay for a very polished experience.
I agree. Considering the backlash at reddit for nixing third party apps, you’d think people would praise all the options for Lemmy.
The reason I’m on lemmy is I WANT to use weird apps and see different things programmers do. It’s like the post is telling me just get taco bell when there’s a dude selling Mexican grandma style enchiladas out of a food truck and I can go over that corner restaurant and get some fire chimmi-chanagas.
I like weird stuff. So what about it? God damned people pushing some vanilla boring shit.
Just ignore them? I don’t see your point here at all. If you don’t want to eat Taco bell, don’t eat it???
What I find hilarious is that the Sync dev could have simply made a $5/month subscription for the Reddit app and continued on making a fortune from Reddit’s product, but instead told people to come here where there are no API costs…and then starts charging a subscription fee and massive one off payment lol. Oh and the app also has ads if you don’t pay, despite Lemmy itself not having ads lol
Just making a living from his great app. Completely fair.
You can get rid of ads with a one-time payment of 19.99$. Not a ‘massive one off payment’ at all. I have the subscription though cuz I want to support this fastastic app and dev.
If apps were girls:
I was always in love with Sync. But life happened and we had to go different ways for non-romantic reasons. Some fucker called Spez, long story…
Eventually I met Voyager and she was great. Any user would be lucky to have her. But Sync was always the one that got away. Everyday I looked at Voyager and thought she was awesome but I was always holding a candle for Sync. But Sync was gone and I had to move on. But I could never really move on.
But life happened again and Sync was coming back. I had committed to Voyager but, as great as she was, I always thought how she came short of Sync. Sync came back and she was as stunning as I remembered. I couldn’t stay with Voyager. I’m sorry Voyager. You’re an awesome girl but I was pretty much just using you since I couldn’t have Sync.
I’m a user Voyager, I make no excuses. There, there…
go memmy <3
Love Memmy. It just works so good.
Oh hey, we appreciating Memmy over here?
Memmy is literally the reason I opted into the fediverse, such a beautiful UX/UI in this app! It feels like a true successor to Apollo.
I love over wefwef becuase that felt like a carbon copy of Apollo which I love but felt cheap
I’m really enjoying how Memmy takes heavy inspiration from Apollo but also takes it in its own direction
Interesting. Maybe at the beginning, when I first used it it felt not as good. But now it feels as snappy to me as Apollo ever was. https://vger.app I mean FKA Wefwef
First time seeing this one, looks very well made!
Memmy gang!
Still love sync tho
Yeah this comic is hilarious but sync is just so slick. Thunder has promise though.
Really enjoying Thunder, hoping it keeps gaining features.
Deleted the half dozen other apps I had for all my Lemmy accts. Now I have just 1 app to rule them all.
Yep. All other apps got deleted. I get the whole foss thing but sync is god tier ill pay for every day.
They’ve released the lifetime price if you’re interested for $170
$170?! 😱
That would be for ultra for life mind. To remove ads forever is $20 USD I believe.
It’s $13.90 USD after tax to remove ads for life
Must be changing the price a bit? Saw a lot of reports earlier it was $20 ish USD.
Not American though, so all I know is it was $33AUD when I bought it earlier. That matches up with the $20 ish USD
It says $99 for me. But I just went with yearly because I prefer long-term support for something I expect to use and would love to see grow.
That’s the wrong IAP.
One time ad removal is $20 or less
In my country it’s like USD $20 to get rid of the ads forever
I love sync too, but the price is crazy. In 2014 I bought reddit sync for like $5, and now lemmy sync lifetime price is $135. I’ll stick with Connect.
I only saw monthly and yearly pricing?
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There’s an option to pay for a lifetime ad-free experience or a lifetime license for Sync Ultra. I found it by clicking the profile switcher in the upper left and seeing a “Remove Ads” button. Still haven’t pulled the trigger on purchasing it yet though.
That’s the price for ultra lifetime. Ad remover one time purchase is $20
I didn’t see that option at first. It’s actually quite reasonable, I think I will use that.
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Oh nooooooo someone made a familiar and easy to use app to help people get used to this new ecosystem that can only thrive if people actually show up and use it. What a real shame.
Are we really being this petty already?
I tried Sync, and it didn’t scroll smoothly on my phone. So, I went back to Summit, which has been great.
But here’s an idea: let’s not get gatekeepy with apps. Use what you like. Freedom of choice is one major component of FOSS.
At the end of the day, software developers need to eat. If they get to eat because their compensation model is driven by donations either before or after you use the app, who cares?
(Fair enough FOSS is free as in freedom, not just as in free beer, but I think that is moot to a lot of people, as long as the market space isn’t crushed by anti-competitive buisness practices)
The bigger issue at hand here is negotiating fair API uses for instances and their admins, who also need to eat, and make the apps possible too.
More options is better for the community
