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- cross-posted to:
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The Hawaii Supreme Court handed down a unanimous opinion on Wednesday declaring that its state constitution grants individuals absolutely no right to keep and bear arms outside the context of military service. Its decision rejected the U.S. Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Second Amendment, refusing to interpolate SCOTUS’ shoddy historical analysis into Hawaii law. Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern discussed the ruling on this week’s Slate Plus segment of Amicus; their conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.
::sigh::
This is a bad ruling; Hawai’i is saying that their state laws and traditions take precedent over federal laws, the US constitution, and SCOTUS rulings. It’s intentionally trying to undermine the concept of the rule of law in order to get the result that they want. That’s not a “devastating rebuke”, it’s a toddler screaming about not getting candy in the supermarket.
This is counter to the concept of the rule of law, and should be seen as an embarrassment, not something to celebrate.
It appears Hawai’i is parroting decisions by redder states, in an effort to force the SCOTUS to rule broadly on the question of Supremacy (or, at least, try and split the baby in some coherent way).
Its counter to the concept of Federalism, but right in line with the Seperatist theory of law that quite a few modern day politicians happily espouse when it suits them.
Exactly. This isn’t any better than Texas.
just like cannabis and other laws in states taking precedent over federal laws?
Texas is another example and abortion is a state by state issue too as is medical and vehicle insurances
driver’s licenses are a state by state thing too as is voting not a federal thing all state by state and education standards are state by state and SNAP benefits
US should have gotten things more united and settled before it was too late and shattering instead of waiting to cry and moan about it afterwards
I already responded to that. Local laws do not supersede federal marijuana laws, as you will quickly discover if you try to purchase a firearm. (And, BTW, if you are a ‘legal’ user of marijuana and buy a firearm, that’s a federal felony.)
SO YOU AGREE that there is no Constitutional right to carry.
WTF are you on about? I didn’t make any argument about “constitutional” carry. Moreover, the Bruen decision said that states could impose carry restrictions, just that the restrictions had to be reasonable and apply universally (neither of which is the case in New York, either the state or the city).
As far as the states that no longer require a permit to carry? By saying that states may make reasonable restrictions on carrying firearms, SCOTUS has implicitly said that states may have permitless carry. …And TBH, since my state enacted permitless carry several years ago, I don’t believe that there’s been a significant rise in gun violence (aside from the spike seen across the country during the pandemic).
I think that it’s just a non-issue.
That said, I would hope that people that choose to carry would get some training, practice, and learn when they can legally use lethal self-defense. Which, sadly, mostly people do not.
unless the state says otherwise
https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb19-093
make US laws make sense
Supremacy clause strikes again.
A state law that contradicts federal law is facially invalid. My state could make a law saying that it was legal to make and sell machine guns, but the NFA of 1934 and FOPA of 1986 both say no, and I guarantee that anyone that tried to follow state law in that case would end up in federal prison.
We saw the same thing in regards to reproductive rights, prior to the Dobbs decision; states would pass laws banning reproductive choice for women, and they would immediately be struck down by courts as invalid because Roe had already said those laws were invalid. Until federal law changes–or SCOTUS rules a different way–the law is that, regardless of what a state says, marijuana users are not allowed to own firearms.
…And, FWIW, federal courts may end throwing that out in the wake of the NYSPRA v. Bruen decision. I think that there are a few cases currently working their way through the system.
The US is akin to the EU, American states are like European states
There’s no federal system for the EU, every country is fully autonomous.
So you can see why states are so defiant when the union tries to impose laws over them
Aren’t US states like counties? Like the states have a narrow set of rules they decide over and the rest comes from the top down.
Over the years the federal government has expanded it’s power, so ideally yes but States still have a lot of power
The notion that they are self governing is why they scream about state’s rights and push against any loss of control
I think this also. I don’t think this is good, but it’s not without precedent considering how Federal law and marijuana legalization works on a State level superceding Federal.
Truthfully this is just another ruling denying Federal as law of the land.
Marijuana laws don’t supersede federal law though; the fed. gov’t simply chooses not to enforce the laws in states that have legalized it, and citizens of the legal states don’t have standing to sue the gov’t and compel them to enforce the laws. (And yeah, I agree that marijuana needs to be descheduled completely so that this isn’t an issue.) (IIRC, they would need to demonstrate a personal harm caused by lack of enforcement to have standing to sue.)
In point of fact, if you purchase legal marijuana, either for recreational purposes or medical reasons, you are ineligible to purchase a firearm; this is made very clear on form 4473, where it specifically states that even if it’s legal in your state, it’s still a federal crime that makes you a prohibited person.
It is ultimately all rooted in the same concept, a rejection of the Supremacy Clause.
This is just another salvo in the kind of language that leads to either a civil war or a secession, and it being made by the “good guys” doesn’t stop that.
I… Don’t think that’s really the case. I don’t think anti-2A states like HI and CA are trying to delegitimize the Supremacy Clause, I think they truly believe that they’re on the right side of history when they’re undermining civil rights. OTOH, I would agree 100% that Texas for instance is trying to undermine the supremacy clause and force a gov’t showdown.
…Which, if Biden is smart, he will avoid doing until and if he wins the election. I would bet a lot of money that Abbot has engineered this to be an election year stunt, esp. since senate Republicans torpedoed their own deal on immigration reform. If Biden goes after Abbot before the election–even though precedent is clearly on his side–he energizes the far right. If he does it the day after he wins the election–regardless of whether he becomes a lame duck or not–then Republicans don’t get to use that.
it really doesn’t, though. federal agents can and still occasionally do assert the supremacy of federal prohibition over state level legalization, it’s just that they’ve been directed not to in most cases. you can absolutely still be arrested for possession and when I was getting my card they made an effort to point that out and told me not to bring it to the post office or national parks or anything else like that where the law enforcement is likely to be federal rather than state or local.