There’s a distinction between war and terrorism. Terrorism is done by non state actors, wars are done by states. For example, there’s a very big difference between the democratic government of the Philippines voting to fight ISIS in their southern islands, and some random ISIS terrorist trying to kill the Filipino president to intimidate non muslim candidates from running for president.

You could say the same exact thing about AIPAC. It’s also a membership-led and membership-funded organization where the vast majority of it’s funding coming from private donations… yet somehow I don’t think you’ll have the same reaction to them being foreign assets. The reality is that both of these organizations advance the interests of foreign governments over America’s, only difference is that Israel is a US ally and the countries that the DSA chooses to align itself with are American adversaries.

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You can go read my comment to guy you’re replying to see that you are indeed wrong.

This is taken directly from their official statement letter:

DSA reaffirms our call for the US to withdraw from NATO and to end the imperialist expansionism that set the stage for this conflict.

https://www.dsausa.org/statements/on-russias-invasion-of-ukraine/

This is from official “condemnation” on Feb 26, 2022. Their condemnation just comes off as tone deaf when they say shit like this, especially right after the invasion. How tone deaf, but they double down on the Russian propaganda fueled stance:

The war in Ukraine is a disaster for working class people in Ukraine, the region, and a terrible threat to us all, including increasing the danger of nuclear war and exacerbating global economic crises. We oppose the Russian invasion and call for the withdrawal of Russian troops through a settled ceasefire agreement. We recognize that the expansion of NATO and the aggressive approach of Western nations have helped cause the crisis and we demand an end to NATO expansion. We also oppose US and NATO military interventionism and the tens of billions in military aid and weapons shipments which only further exacerbates the war and undermine a negotiated settlement, as well as sanctions that will harm ordinary Russians. We call on the US and other countries to welcome refugees fleeing the war and provide needed humanitarian aid.

https://international.dsausa.org/ukraine/

And again:

https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/dsa-and-the-war-in-ukraine-toward-a-mass-socialist-anti-war-movement/

There seems to be a common theme going on. They “condemn” the invasion, but blame the US and NATO for it, push for negotiations that Putin wants, and try to justify Russia’s reasons for invading. Now, when Ukraine itself is against these narratives… who exactly is pushing them? Who is benefiting from this propaganda and misinformation? Oh that’s right, it’s Russia… which the DSA just happens to conveniently align with.

Right, my ultimate goal is for the fascists to be defeat and disappear and for the far left to disappear with them. Until then, I have a moral obligation to call out far left extremism when I see it and call out any attempts that try to sabotage Trump’s defeat in November… like what the DSA is trying to do here.

Let me ask you this, why can’t we regulate capitalism to work for us? Just think of what we can do:

• Greatly expand and enforce strong environmental regulations
• Expand and enforce anti trust laws to break monopolies
• Improve working conditions
• Remove money from politics
• Ban lobbying
• Increase the minimum wage to something livable and tie it to inflation
• Improve the justice system to hold CEOs and other big executives accountable for any crimes they commit and punish them accordingly
• Tie worker wages to CEO salaries or company revenue
• Fix all the tax loopholes and have corporations and billionaires pay their fair share
• Improve the social safety net so people can have their basic needs met
• Expand regulations to protect consumers
• Expand regulations for price gouging and enforce them
• Update our outdated zoning laws to allow for the building of more houses
• Remove the shitty regulations that prevent public transport from being built
• Ban any attempts to equate corporations with people
• Implement ranked choice voting and get rid of first past the vote
• Change the way we measure the health of the economy from GDP and stock market trends to things like median income, life expectancy, levels of happiness, mental and physical health, childhood success rate, rates of substance abuse, crime rates, social mobility, and so on
• Incentivize companies and people that do more to help their communities and punish those that actively harm them

These are not radical ideas and they’re not new, these are all already in place in capitalist societies all around the world. We know they work and we know capitalism works, so why not make it better? Capitalism doesn’t have to be this dystopian reality where corporations own everything and everybody else lives in poverty struggling to make ends meet. It could also be this great system that is centered around humanity and works to the benefit of the people. A system where the value of a person matters more than a dollar amount. These ideas aren’t antithetical to capitalism. Capitalism is just tool, it’s a flexible one too, there’s nothing stopping us from shaping it to serve us and our values. Why not pursue that instead of trying to pursue some an ideology that has literally failed? After so many attempts, so many failures, so many people killed, when is it time to move on? Marxist socialism isn’t the way forward, it’s a way of the past.

What truth is buried? You just sound mad because I openly criticize the far left for how shitty they are since you are probably one.

Marxists: “Here is misinformation to justify destroying Israel and implement a failed tyrannical ideology that killed tens of million of people”

Normal people: “No, can criticize and condemn the actions of the Israeli government while also acknowledging reality and working for a resolution where both Israelis and Palestinians get to coexist peacefully. We can also criticize our economic system and call for actions to improve it with stronger regulations”

You: “What are you? A boomer?”

“Everything I don’t like is liberal propaganda”

All of these terms apply. The Nordic countries are indeed capitalist, liberal, and democracies. Their version of capitalism is social market economy where capitalism is well regulated and there is a social safety net in place. So you’re right, but Bernie calling Denmark democratic socialist was not.

Well, yeah, they’re socialists. Why shouldn’t they want to abolish capitalism and establish socialism? There’s nothing vile about that.

No, that in itself is vile. The reason why neo Nazis are despised is because they subscribe to a hateful, idealist, and tyrannical ideology that ended up failing every time it was tried and has killed tens of millions of people. There’s another idealist ideology that also got popular around the same time, but had the same fate of failure, tyranny, and resulted in the deaths of tens of millions… what was that ideology again? Oh that’s right, it’s Marxist socialism. You’re not morally superior to fascists, you’re just as trash as them. If Marxist socialists had a similar movement in size and influence to Trump and MAGA and were in a position to win, the sane majority would be just as terrified, and rightfully so.

The dissolution of the state of Israel

“We stand against genocide!!! …but not that one, that one is okay”

Jews, Christians, Muslims and others co-existed in Palestine before the Zionist state of Israel was established, the two-state situation is segregation caused by the establishment of a Zionist regime.

This is the type of ignorance that I expect from Marxists. Israel and Palestine are both artificial states created around the same time. There has literally never been a moment in human history where a sovereign state called Palestine existed. Before the current states Israel and Palestine, there was the British Mandate that was arbitrarily drawn… just like the British and French did with the rest of the region. Before that, it was the Turkish Ottoman Empire, and they had completely different divisions of the region. Before that, it was the Egyptian Malmuk Empire, and they also had their own divisions of the region. The same thing goes for the Ayyubid Caliphate, the Abbasid Caliphate, and the crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem… but at that point we’ve gone back 1000 years. This narrative that you cling to is not true.

That is a perfectly-appropriate time to rally support.

Ukraine just got invaded, quick, hold a pro-Russian rally. What? ISIS just massacred a Yezidi village? I guess it’s a perfectly appropriate time to hold a pro ISIS rally. Hmm, Al Qaeda appears to have launched planes into buildings in New York, I guess it’ll be wise to stand solidarity with the islamist resistence.

Because why be principled and stand with victims against senseless violence when we can be a brain dead ideologue who’s pro terrorism and genocide when it suits your ideological goals and anti terrorism and genocide when it doesn’t? If you ever wondered why the far left never seems to get a foothold anywhere, this is why.

They are pro-Palestinian and wanted to make it clear that people believed the resistance was supported, regardless of whether they are critical of the methods. The mass media gets to have its voice immediately, so rallies should not wait either.

What kind of a heartless ghoul do you have to be to support the Oct 7th terrorist attacks against innocent civilians?

Yes. Democratic socialists are not capitalists and would not consider liberal democracy (especially the US version!) a working form of democracy, and don’t consider social capitalist parties within it to be effective because they must work within a broken system. Social democracy is a false hope to them.

Of course, of course. I mean why would you ever support a pragmatic ideology that has consciously proven to be a success to those who have tried it and has resulted in the freest, most democratic, and most prosperous societies in human history when you can support a failed tyrannical ideology that has killed tens of millions? Clearly, with the power of hindsight at our disposal, we can clearly see the latter is a better choice than the former /s.

Most socialists will understand the US as a settler-colonial imperialist state from day 1,

That’s literally the origin of every single country in history. What alternate reality do you live in?

so yes, their interests are ultimately that the US (as we know it) should stop being imperial terrorists that most of the world (including state allies) hate.

So let me get this straight, you unironically think that America is an illegitimate terrorist state and you’re openly working against American interests, and you expect Americans to support you? How dumb do you have to be to think that Americans in America would cheer on for idiots that think their country is evil, illegitimate, and should be destroyed? Not only are these claims false, but you’re not really driving home that your ideology is not the result of foreign adversaries.

But to call that being “nothing more than assets of our foreign adversaries” is ignorant of the very real and growing discontent with the US’s own borders.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. When you cheer on for America’s adversaries, when you interests are openly against the country, when you conveniently align with foreign adversaries on most things, when you employ tactics like revisionism, propaganda, and double standards to demonize the US but justify, excuse, and downplay America’s adversaries doing questionable shit… then your movement is probably a foreign assest.

A lot of US citizens hate the US governments and how they work, and to blame that on foreign adversaries will ultimately prevent them from being solved and prevent their numbers growing

There are real problems within the country that need to be addressed, however, you’re not an alternative or a part of the solution. The far left is a part of the problem. There will never be a day in this country where you will see power, and hopefully the same exact thing is true for the far right. Extremists belong in secluded online echo chambers, not in positions of power.

I’m pointing out why the DSA is a shitty organization and movement, them turning on AOC is merely another example.

Also, you’re not principled, and neither are they. They unironically support genocide against Israel and against Ukraine, they’re just picking and choosing which genocides to support. Not to mention, that AOC has the most reasonable stance on the war imaginable. She condemns the actions of the Israeli government, she condemns the actions of the Palestinian groups, and she wants them to work towards of a ceasefire and a hostage release for the benefit of the people.

You can go live in your delusional world where Trump is elected and is giving the Netanyahu his full support for Israel to fully annex the West Bank and Gaza, but hey at least you stuck it to the Democrats and stood by your anti-pragmatic politics. As for the rest of us? We’re still grounded in reality where Trump is still the biggest threat to our democracy.

Yeah, there’s pretty big damn difference between MLK fighting for equality during segregation in 1964 and the DSA simping for dictators and helping fascist MAGA win.

Also for the record, NONE of the Scandinavian countries are democratic socialist. Every single one is a capitalist liberal democracy. This idea that any of the Scandinavian countries are anywhere near socialist is misinformation spread by Bernie during his campaigns. The Danish PM at the time even had to address this publicly:

Speaking at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, Danish PM Lars Løkke Rasmussen told students that he had “absolutely no wish to interfere the presidential debate in the US” but nonetheless attempted to set the record straight about his country.

"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.

Source: https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist

Everything I said can be found either on their own website or their wiki page:

https://www.dsausa.org/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Socialists_of_America

No, the far left has always been vile, but the DSA is especially annoying because they actively hurt the Democrats and help the Republicans.

True, which is why now is the most important time to condemn political violence, get people politically active, and vote to keep the fascist wannabes out of power.

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No Marxism is a failure for a lot more than that, it’s one of the most evil failed ideology in human history. It’s just ironic how the people who helped get the Nazis in power are the same people doing the same now. The far left has always been the greatest indirect ally of the of the far right, and they say the horseshoe theory is not real.

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