• Keith
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    17
    ·
    5 months ago

    Not really. Most who hold this view are far left.

    • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      5 months ago

      It’s still a stupid view based on frustration with the establishment rather than reality. Emotions being valid doesn’t make a falsehood more correct. Republicans have never been worse and Democrats are better than they’ve been in decades.

      The only coherent argument behind not voting for Biden is accelerationism. It’s a morally bankrupt strategy that’s unlikely to work, but at least it’s a long term plan that thinks beyond cutting off your nose to spite your face.

      • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        >The only coherent argument behind not voting for Biden is accelerationism.

        wrong. he’s a bad guy who has a bad history and bad policies. that’s a very good reason not to vote for him.

        EDIT:

        this user is making shit up and insulting anyone who points it out. if you ignore them, they might go away.

          • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            5 months ago

            no, my criticism is with the architect of the crime bill and the usa patriot act. my criticism is with a self-proclaimed zionist. my problem is with the head of a corrupt political party. my criticisim is with biden.

        • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          5 months ago

          The hidden part of this argument is that either Trump isn’t significantly worse than Biden, or that you don’t need to vote for the lesser of two evils in the presidential election. You can’t divorce voting for Biden from the context of Republican fascists who are openly Nazis. It’s the same shit Israel does with the October 7th massacre: focusing only on the terribleness of the attack and downplaying the decades of oppression that allowed it to happen. It’s frustrating as fuck to hear that willful ignorance of the uncomfortable reality, either from Judeo-fascists about their genocide or so called leftists about political apathy.

          Voting for a tiny party can work in systems with proportional representation, but that system doesn’t even exist for our legislature. The presidency fundamentally can’t have proportional representation, as we elect for a single position. Even if we added ranked choice, it will always come down to two dominant choices. That’s the trade off of directly electing our head of state.

          You have valid frustration, but don’t have solid reasoning. Punishing Biden will make things much worse for everyone. Just like I can’t punish apathetic nematodes like you for the injustice they cause, you can’t punish Biden for his bad behavior. There is only making things better. Righting the past is impossible.

          • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            5 months ago

            >so called leftists

            anarchism opposes governance

            communism is a stateless society

            voting for a president at all indicates someone is not a leftist (Fabian socialists being an exception).

            if I’m not going to vote for a genocidal tool of the police state, that only bolsters my leftist credibility.

            • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              5 months ago

              Lol. Leftist is when no vote. Leftism is when political irrelevance. If you’re not engaging in the state’s political system and not preparing for violence, you’re mostly just larping.

              A smart leftist would hedge their bets and use electoral politics to garner popularity, organize workers movements, and train in self defense, using all those avenues for power in whatever way works best given the context. The anti voting attitude hasn’t worked at growing leftism for decades, while Bernie Sanders and DSA sponsored candidates have boosted the left more anything.

              Organizations aren’t enough. Fascists only speak violence, so leftists stand no chance against the state. Fascists don’t even stand a chance if they lose enough internal support. The state’s systems must be engaged with because it has a strong monopoly on violence. No amount of workers unions can oppose an army. Your own logic doesn’t even support your approach.

              Growing power is necessary to change the world. Might does not make right, but might is necessary to succeed. Viewing liberal democracy as insufficient isn’t the same as it being inherently immoral to use. Your leftist credibility isn’t worth shit when you have no power to back it.

          • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            5 months ago

            >you can’t punish Biden for his bad behavior. There is only making things better. Righting the past is impossible.

            there is no way to get from this to the conclusion that one ought to vote for him

            • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              5 months ago

              Utilitarianism and consequentialism. It used to be a given amongst socialists, but not anymore I guess. You are obligated to perform the action that ensures the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people. Voting for the lesser evil is exactly that. An imperfect action, but a necessary one.

              Honestly, socialists should always vote unless they have a specific strategy in not voting. Maybe they’re boycotting a rigged election to diminish its ability to justify the government. Maybe it’s because a specific deal with a party was broken and they’re following through on a promise. With those examples, not voting is combined with a specific action to weaken the government. There’s careful thought and the efftect of the boycott is maximized. This isn’t the case right now. The only proposed strategy is accelerationism.

      • pedalmore@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        5 months ago

        How is accelerationism a “long term plan that thinks beyond cutting off your nose to spite your face”? There’s no long term plan at all, it’s simply a false hope that people will rise up when things get shitty enough, and from those ashes some kind of utopia will sprout. That’s not a plan at all, that’s just a dream.

        • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          5 months ago

          It’s a shitty strategy that’s divorced from reality, but it does recognize the outcome of not electing Biden. Ignorant leftists on here purposefully ignore the results of their decision so they can feel justified. They want Biden to get what he deserves, but ignore the results of their actions.

          It’s ironic, because socialism is often associated with utilitarianism and consequentialism, yet these keyboard socialists valorize ignoring consequences.

        • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          5 months ago

          I don’t care about making Dems look bad. They’re evil in their own way. I care about pretending Republicans are comparably evil. Republicans are on a completely different level. They’re orders of magnitude worse. Fascists are much worse than liberals, not because liberals aren’t evil, but because fascists are indescribably more evil.