• bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
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        4 months ago

        The harassment of Jewish artists in American cities is not helping save Palestinian lives and you need to stop pretending otherwise.

        • Landsharkgun@midwest.social
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          4 months ago

          The artist being Jewish is not a problem.

          Being a Zionist is the problem.

          Conflating those two things is as racist as assuming all Chinese people are hardcore Maoists.

          • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
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            4 months ago

            Which specific Jews are not Zionists? Zionism is generally defined as the belief that Jews have a right to self government and a return to their ancestral homeland.

            Most Jews, as well as most Americans and most everybody outside of terrorist shitholes and Russia agrees with the basic concepts of Zionism to some degree of another.

            We can talk about getting a more left wing government in Israel and trying Netanyahu for warcrimes, but wanting Jews gone from their homeland is an absolute non starter.

            • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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              4 months ago

              I know plenty of antizionist Jewish people. Some of them would be comfortable living in what is now Israel as a homeland IF it wasn’t a settler colonialist apartheid state and was some sort of pluralistic democratic society.

                • Cethin
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                  4 months ago

                  It can and should, and it did before the colonists. Modern Zionism (and probably Zionism always) is their exclusive control over it. Their magic book tells them how evil their neighbors are and encourages them killing them. I don’t think most Jews follow that crap, but the fact that Zionists want to remove anyone else and that’s in there doesn’t help them.

            • audrbox@beehaw.org
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              4 months ago

              Hi, I’m an anti-zionist Jew and absolutely fuck Israel! Zionism is bad for everyone, including us. It conflates our religion with a genocidal ideology that rightfully terrifies the rest of the world, which then makes the world think they hate Jews (because they keep hearing “Judaism=Israel”). Despite what Zionist Jews may say, ending Zionism will help us, not hurt us.

                • audrbox@beehaw.org
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                  4 months ago

                  Who do you include in the rest of the world? Based on your other comment, I get the impression you understand Zionism to mean something very different from what it’s historically been.

              • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
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                4 months ago

                Yes, because the Nazis were the ones who called for more left wing governments.

                I’m glad the tankies have finally taken their masks off, it’s just a shame it had to be over this, the very thing we said it would be.

        • Sunforged@lemmy.ml
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          4 months ago

          Layna Sherman Crandell from the MN Anti-War Committee explained, “Zionism requires prioritizing the majority rule of some lives over others, necessitating the dehumanization of Palestinians. Israel is not Judaism; it is fascistic terror. Matsiyahu and the Zionists cannot speak for me or for the Jewish people, and they will not silence the voices of Palestinians in their fight for freedom and liberation.”

          • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
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            4 months ago

            So Palestinians fighting for their own homeland is fascist as well, by this person’s logic.

            When Hamas took the hostages into Gaza and refused to take the battlefield elsewhere, were they being just as fascist?

            • Cethin
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              4 months ago

              I love to see the “they’re using civilians as human shields” argument. They’re in one of the most densely populated places in the world and aren’t allowed to leave. There isn’t really space that isn’t surrounded by civilians. There literally is not an option (except for attack into Israeli territory, which I’m sure you’re against also).

                • Cethin
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                  4 months ago

                  You can’t be pro-Israel if you’re defending the actions of Zionists.

                  What stupidity. I’m not defending their actions. I’m putting them into context. You’re saying they stated something that they didn’t start. What other options are they given? Should they peacefully let Israel genocide them and remove them from their land? I can’t say what they did was right, but I also can’t say it was wrong. We aren’t in that situation forced to make that choice, and I’m not going to sit here and act like we are.

            • ImmortanStalin@lemmygrad.ml
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              4 months ago

              I’m pretty sure the people trapped in the world’s largest concentration camp can’t take things far past their walls.

        • Gabu@lemmy.ml
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          4 months ago

          I can’t punch you for being part of a protected group, that would be wrong. I can punch you for being a Nazi who just happens to be part of a protected group.

          Same logic.

    • Cethin
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      4 months ago

      We have to allow the Nazis to speak or else we’re racist against white people!

      This has absolutely nothing to do with them being Jewish. It has to do with them being complicit in a genocide. Zionists can be Jewish or not and Jews can be Zionists or not. They aren’t the same thing.

      • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
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        4 months ago

        The specific Zionists you are accusing of genocide are themselves Jews, specifically Jews who are the children and grandchildren of holocaust survivors.

        Israel didn’t declare war on Oct. 7. Hamas did.

        • bamboo@lemm.ee
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          4 months ago

          The war didn’t start on October 7th though, it started when Zionist terrorists started settling in Palestine and committing atrocities against the local Palestinians and the British. If we could pick and choose when to start history, one could argue that the holocaust was justified because everything was peaceful until the Warsaw ghetto uprising, and just conveniently ignore why the Warsaw ghetto existed in the first place.

        • Cethin
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          4 months ago

          I would say the war started when Jewish settlers started purchasing farms and refused to hire anyone but Jews. It ripped any possibility of survival from the people who traditionally worked those farms. It forced their only hope to be fighting back.

          For a time both Jews and Arabs lived together peacefully, and the first Kibbutz seemed to want to work together and free the workers from the oppression of the traditional landowners. Once they started only hiring Jews there was no going back. This was the end of peace, and it was started by the Jewish settlers. Oct 7th 2023 is only a small moment in a much larger conflict.

            • Cethin
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              4 months ago

              No, they are responsible for what they did and Israel is responsible for what they did. What Hamas did was in a context that you’re ignoring. If you’re taken prisoner by someone and trapped in their basement, do you think it’s reasonable to kill them to get out? Sometimes extreme actions are done in a context that makes them more reasonable, and ignoring that context removes any reasonable discussion that can be had. Hamas fought back against an oppressor with a lot more power. It’s not my place to say what actions they are allowed to take.

              You’re trying to remove any culpability from Israel though by just saying “the war is on Hamas”, which isn’t true nor is it an excuse.