Isn’t it that Old Ben was thinking of highly trained clones and had pretty much no stormtrooper experience in decades?
Like, he’d been living in a hunting the middle of a desert for 20 years intentionally staying away from anything dangerous.
As usual the fans come up with a great answer to explain away poor writing.
There’s gawd damn laser swords, I’ll rationalize anything else I need to.
It’s still real to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvd3aEsThbc
Or people are too dumb to understand decent writing. The storm troopers destroyed the rebels in the opening scene. They killed almost every fighter in the battle of Yavin. The only time they didn’t perform well is when intentionally letting Leia escape. Sure there’s plot armor, but there’s also an explanation for a lot of it.
They also sucked in Mos Eisley. They aren’t trying to let them escape, nor are they trying to take them alive or anything like that. They completely give up the element of surprise by loudly shouting “blast them!” and then fail to hit anything despite having an entire squad of troops ready to open up on them.
That said, ESB shows them as being competent, and the only shots they miss are from long range and against targets with good cover. Sadly, the same cannot be said of ROTJ, as basically everything the empire does on Endor is idiotic and makes them look incompetent.
as basically everything the empire does on Endor is idiotic and makes them look incompetent.
Which makes perfect sense, as by RotJ the empire had to rely on barely trained new recruits and recently promoted officials, because most of their veterans were dead - either by Vader-phyxiation, by “meetings with the Emperor” or straight up backstabbing.
Also… I assume quite a few of their best and brightest were on the first death star. That was a large station…
Considering Tarkin, Sidious’ right-hand man, died in that explosion, I’d say that’s a safe assumption
If Tarkin was the right hand, would that make Vader the left hand? Ironic …
For Leia, Vader had set the Stormtroopers on ‘Stun’.
They mean when they escape the death star and rescue Leia in ANH. Vader explicitly says he ordered to let them escape so they could be tracked to Yavin 4.
Another instance of explaining plot armor.
Actually, i was making a StarTrek joke.
Or maybe you don’t understand the difference?
Clone troopers were highly trained and sometimes specialist trained clones of jango.
In the other hand, storm troopers are human “recruits” that are trained by suboptimal clones or left over clone troopers.
They are entirely different armies that were parts of mostly entirely different wars.
and you HONESTLY think that was the plan at the time? That the storm troopers he was thinking of was the clone wars? That was already canon back then?
Or…did he just say ‘clone wars’ because it sounds spiffy and Lucas had absolutely zero thought put into it past that?
The plan at the time was what the film explicitly said. They were devastatingly effective at taking the Tantive IV. They were devastatingly effective at destroying the sandcrawler (to the point that they couldn’t disguise it as having been attacked by sand people). They were devastatingly effective at nearly hitting the protagonists enough times that they believed they were being shot at for real, when actually they were just being herded onto a ship with a tracker on it so they’d reveal the location of the rebel base they’d spend the first half the film failing to threaten or torture out of Leia. They were devastatingly effective at destroying the rebel’s attack force against the Death Star, and were seconds away from destroying Yavin IV and the rebel base on it when someone used supposedly-extinct space magic to make what the film had previously described as an impossible shot against a tiny target.
The only time they miss is when the film says they did so on purpose.
and you HONESTLY think that was the plan at the time? That the storm troopers he was thinking of was the clone wars? That was already canon back then?
Considering the very first drafts mention “Sith” and George had the idea of midichlorians way back then, I wouldn’t ignore the possibility. Lots of things were either cut or went unmentioned until Episode I.
Sure why not? The universe he created was meant to be explored and opened up, he specifically avoided hemming himself into situations. They did a good job avoiding most retconning until Disney took over.
Sure lots was made up, but that’s literally what fiction is, so why are you upset about it…? Lmfao. This wasn’t a universe that was created for him like most other stories, it was a universe for others. Not everyone is going to understand the difference unfortunately though.
He was also general during the war and led platoons of clone troopers, he knew what they were capable of first hand.
ah…you are taking this as an attack. thats why you think I’m upset. It’s all stupid fun dude. Pointing out stupid shit is just part of the fun. I like the movies as much as most of the people here.
But my original point stands. Lucas always just kinda…said things. Then the fans come along and (mostly in the books that don’t count anymore) worked within what he said to flesh shit out for real. Then of course the prequel trilogy came out and he made up more shit to fit with what he said before. Some neat, like making the clone wars tie into the storm troopers…some we do not speak of.
It’s not an attack on your fandom and nobody is upset :)
People who just say he didn’t think of x y or z back than, kinda miss the point, he thought ahead enough to leave it open to interpretation. So yeah it kinda is an attack, when you miss the authors intentions and inject your own…
Ah…well if you take it as an attack on your fandom I’m sorry my man. Maybe just try not to take these things so seriously? It was all stupid fun that you are trying to turn serious.
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Not just shit writing, but some of the worst.
It’s wild the mental gymnastics people go through to convince themselves this series is good.
Give me your version of a good series so I can shit on that
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Tell me your version of a good story so I can shit on that
Lol I’m the one who started this and I think he’s over the top
Why are you dodging the question? Could it be that - gasp - you’re a pathetic basement dwelling troll?
In A New Hope, the only time stormtroopers miss is when they do so intentionally, when they’re chasing the protagonists off the Death Star, and onto the Millenium Falcon, which has been fitted with a tracking device which they know will be taken straight to the rebel base. They easily overwhelm the guards on the Tantive IV at the beginning of the film even when only a few of them have made it through the breached airlock. The myth that stormtroopers miss comes from people not noticing the scene where Tarkin discusses intentionally letting the rebels escape so they can follow the tracking device back to their base.
It’s sad that we don’t really get to see Stormtroopers at their peak outside of that one scene on the Tantive IV and that Disney nu-canon has essentially embraced the meme of them being inaccurate.
I think the way the story is constructed clashes with the way movies are filmed for entertainment. We are explicitly told that the Stormtroopers are a force to be feared, and shown that exactly one time, but the narrative requires a bunch of nameless faceless mooks for the heroes to mow down during their action scenes because that’s more entertaining, so the Stormtroopers fill both roles and it gets muddled along the way.
As for the Tusken sniper who took out Teemto on the podracing circuit, I’d chalk that up to a lucky shot. There were a few of them shooting, and it was a target rich environment, an he was the only one to get nailed in the engine and suffer a catastrophic failure despite it being a multi-lap race.
But we did see the Stormtroopers at their peak. That was the Clone Wars. During the first few years of the empire, the Stormtrooper army was made almost exclusively of clones. As more regular people were added, their frightening capabilities slowly decreased until, by RotJ, the Empire’s army is made entirely of new recruits who promptly get their asses handed to them.
Storm troopers and clone troopers are wholly different armies.
Should I link you to every Star Wars book ever, or can you find them on your own? During most of the early Empire they were the same army. Some clones were in use up to episode IV. The 501st remained as Anakin’s particular army the entire time, from the end of EII to the fall of the Empire.
Oh my sweet summer child, the good clones trained the subpar clones from centex 2 that formed that army, they weren’t the original jango clones that were trained by the Kimonions.
The Kamino clones took the roles the Jedi had, the ground troops are a mix of competitor clones not using original DNA, but mainly non-clone recruits. They are whollfully different armies.
Ones literally under the republic, and the other under the empire.
Storm troopers are not clones. Maybe take your own advice and read some of the books? I’m a third of the way through chronologically myself, which puts me in the middle of the clone wars.
You’re just wrong on this one dude.
You’re actually illiterate…
centex 2
Centax-2.
Kimonions
Kaminoans.
whollfully
Wholefully, but preferably wholly.
The Kamino clones took the roles the Jedi had, the ground troops are a mix of competitor clones […] Storm troopers are not clones.
You’ve just contradicted yourself. You somehow managed to do it in three sentences, no less.
Regarding this I always wondered how Jedi are able to turn on/off their Jedi power in order to avoid being detected for so long
I’m no star wars nerd, but if it’s midiochlorians, then they’re everywhere already.
If the Jedi isn’t using/communing with them, it just blends into the background noise.
So when they went into hiding, they went to cities where it got lost in the noise, or incredibly isolated where one Jedi still wouldnt register on a planet wide scale even if it’s Yoda.
Like, as long as they weren’t in the space version of a subdivision, they wouldn’t stick out. It had to be one extreme or another.
There’s also another option, which some Jedi did follow: completely cut yourself from the force. This results in being unable to use the force at all, but they still have all of their lightsaber training in a pinch.
The ahsoka novel actually partly covers this. Ben basically went into some form of deep meditation for decades.
Is there any indication that force sensitive people can be detected at a distance at all?
There are suggestions in Legends. The cave near Yoda is full of the dark side, and with Yoda living there, it looks neutral from a distance. There’s also a device found that can scan someone and show their “force aura”.
Disney canon hasn’t gone that route. You can do a blood test for midichlorians. Jedi might be able to intuit someone’s force sensitivity by watching and testing them (as a Bad Batch episode recently did). But there’s nothing to indicate force sensitives can be detected at a distance, either by trained force sensitives or by technology.
Is there any indication that force sensitive people can be detected at a distance at all?
Loads of indication. Vader detects Luke at various points (and vice-versa). The very fact Sidious contacts Vader about Luke’s force abilities without being prompted is a strong indication he could feel it.
But at the same time, you had a lot of moments where Jedi felt the death of a loved one, or where Anakin Ahsoka/Obi-Wan/Yoda felt him going to the dark side.
spacemagic.gif
They spend a lot of time practicing to expand their mind and feel the Force. It’s probably not too hard to figure out how to go the other way
Sith have been doing it for eons.
I haven’t watched Ahsoka or Kenobi yet (probably never will… for either) but wouldn’t one of those have resulted in Obi-Wan being familiar with stormtroopers over clone troopers?
But also, watch stuff like Andor or Rogue One or even some of the more OT-era animations. Stormtroopers are still terrifying if you aren’t a protagonist with plot armor (that I guess is subconsciously using The Force to deflect shots). And this would have been less of a high stress battle and more an ambush/execution.
But also? Obi-Wan is clearly kind of a manipulative asshole. He took Anakin’s son and basically trained him into an assassin to neutralize Vader and stop Palpatine. He also specifically did not tell Luke to maybe not have the hots for the cute princess hologram that he 100% knew was his twin sister.
Why would he say “Well, this could have been an ambush by those random people who have a history of ambushing stuff and fucking shit up?” versus “oh yeah. This is The Empire. You should totally go stop Vader”. Also, he might be aware of the ethnic cleansing that Anakin did against the Tuskens and is extra trying to avoid a repeat of that.
Maybe he was worried that Luke would go down the same path his father would, so he kept things vague. That was always my take on Old Ben – he wasn’t really guiding Luke to do anything, it was the Force. “Luke, your father was actually a dangerous madman who slew younglings. In fact, is the right hand man, that academy you were joining? It’s Space Fascism, so definitely don’t go and join it to be with your father.” lol
On the topic of the other two – Personally, I liked Kenobi. It has some sillier bits, but nothing IMO that isn’t easily explained (as an example, there’s a scene where young Leia is chased by mercenaries and she kinda dunks on them. People hate it. I think it was a clear example of her Force Sensitivity, so I don’t mind it at all.) Its main shortcoming for me was the villains could have been better and Reva was a bit predictable. I didn’t think she was as bad as the Internet did.
Ahsoka… I wanted to like. It had a lot of potential, most of my issues were that it seemed like they were filming a video game, but since we’re not playing Ahsoka we end up just watching her interact with things we have no meaning for. Other than that, it was decent save for what they did to Sabine, which was just a disgrace to her character. Sabine was disappointing, over and over again. Overall, I think it has been my least favorite of the Star Wars shows as it has had the most visible quirks and awkward shots.
As a continuation of that story it’s pretty decent and I’m excited for S2. But as a continuation of that story, the characters were not as strong as I felt they could have been. Time passed and people change, that’s fine. This wasn’t quite that though.
Even if that’s true, it doesn’t change the point the bottom image is making.
That he was underestimating the Sand People?
Doesnt it becomes clear pretty soon that he was underestimating the Sand People in general?
Like, legit asking, it’s been at least a decade since I watched it.
But the way I remembered it was Obi overestimating stormtroopers because he lead an elite squad of clone troopers, and underestimating the primitive natives, because in any fight with him and troopers against them, they wouldn’t stand a chance.
Also highlighting how much has changed since he was involved in such things.
Like, just because a character thinks something, doesn’t make it true. Obi is an unreliable narrator, but viewers are in Luke’s perspective thinking Obi has all that answers.
Just from a story telling perspective it makes sense. And is far from the only example.
Depends if you watched the Obi Wan show or not I guess
Their accuracy varies
2/4 aren’t storm troopers?
but all of them are the bad guys (although the separatists weren’t necessarily that bad, especially compared to the empire)
It’s funny how people miss the whole message behind the movies
The senate was corrupt and the separatists wanted to put an end to it, which is definitely a good cause but then their leader was a sith so yeah… Let’s just say there aren’t any good guys except for Obi-Wan of course.
The separatists were also a bunch of hypercapitalist scum
Using slave labor, among other things, even without getting into the droid stuff. The very idea of them gets introduced when the Trade Federation, a core Separatist power bloc, tries to conquer Naboo over a trade dispute.
Why the hell don’t Star Wars fans understand Star Wars, it’s not that deep.
Because George was subtle enough with the idea of there not being a good guy that it flew right over most people’s heads.
Of course
Worth watching this from The Mandalorian
Thought they wanted them to escape the death star so they could track the ship.
The stormtroopers definitely killed people without plot armor in every episode
The troopers in scene 1 of a New Hope were pretty scary.
Well, everyone knows that Mandalorian armor has special properties to it that attracts laser bolts.
That’s why it has to be so much stronger than other armor.
It was an inside job. Obi Wan paid the Sand People to kill the Jawas and Luke’s auncle and aunt so that Luke will follow him to become a Jedi. Remember, the Sand People thinks Obi Wan is a mythical monster/god.
> but but Obi Wan is a good guy!
No! Obi Wan has shown in the Prequels to be a sly manipulative guy. He justifies everything by “looking at it from a certain point of view”. He lied to Luke about Vader too. He’s also not above mind controlling " weak minded" muggles. All the pieces line up. Wake up banthaples!
Based and sandpilled.
He also does some pretty shady stuff in the Clone Wars series. It’s used to help better explain the rift between him and Anakin in Revenge of the Sith
Precise, not accurate. They just always miss in the same way
and their holes are exactly as they need to be. Very precise, horribly on the accuracy front.
Yeah but didn’t it take him like 8 tries? He shot at them every circuit but only hit a crit shot on the last lap.
You make that shot and tell me if 8 tries seems like too many.
Reminds me of my time playing Rising Storm 2, having a mosin (long, obselecent bolt action rifle) and taking way more than 8 shots at passing helicopters. I nailed a pilot in the head from pure luck and he commented on how cool/bullshit it was
That’s still pretty good…
Yeah but the more shots required the lower the skill ceiling.
I’m not saying it wasn’t a good shot I’m saying at that point with the amount of attempts it could be just as much blind luck as skill
Colonial bias. Once you see it…
He’s being sarcastic. Then this dialog starts making sense.
Or just racist.
“Those dirty Sand People could never be this precise!”
Or he’s just trying to impress some local farm boy who knows nothing about the galaxy, the ways of the force, or sand people.
They’re looking at random pot shots on the side of a gigantic sand crawler. Were those shots even precise? It seemed like they hit armor and did fuck all for the most part until one dude randomly got lucky and hit the gas tank or something.
There was an event in between these two scenes that wiped out all the sand people with good aim, I can’t think of it though…
Not just the men with good aim…
disney ruined star wars
I’ve really enjoyed The Mandalorian, Ahsoka, and Andor. Rogue One was fantastic. It’s not all bad.
I tried to watch the first couple episodes of mando but the blatent “we have no plot for this character besides selling tiny-yoda plushies” disney sales tactics got to me.
They fucked up the animated clone wars story line, so I don’t wanna go anywhere near ahsoka
Idk, after falling asleep at a theater during the 2nd movie Disney made, I called it quits. They had their chance.
The mystery is part of the character. He also gets plenty of plot, it’s just not shoved in our faces from the get go. The Mandalorian is one of the best space westerns we’ve gotten in a long time.
If they hadn’t put him in a set of invincible armor that immediately dissolved all suspense I’d agree.
Eh. I think characters dying as the only stakes is weak writing anyway. If I were using that as a judgement, all of Star Wars is terrible, especially the Clone Wars. Obviously, that’s not the case. Besides, clearly the armor rating is meaningless given the events of the S2 finale – clearly the armor isn’t protecting him from impacts what with his head injury.
We if look to Ming Na Wen’s character I’d even argue that being hit by blasters in New Star Wars is just an opportunity to visit the medic anyway, so Din wearing beskar doesn’t really remove any of the suspense for me.
You’re the one that called it a Space Western.
Are there a lot of Westerns with the main character running around literally invincible to bullets? Or does the outlaw gunplay central to the genre require some element of danger to be interesting?
I think there’s a wide spread. I’d say that there’s westerns like Brokeback Mountain and Dances With Wolves, where the suspense is more from the dire circumstances and grit that they have to work through in order to survive – few times are their lives gravely endangered. Similarly, there’s the Clint Eastwood westerns where you don’t really expect anything to be happening to that main character, yet they’re still well received. The “True Grit” style Western – someone to protect while you rough it through the hard life.
And then there’s the westerns you’re talking about, The Good The Bad and The Ugly, nearly Magnificent Seven style western where the characters present an archetype and have a fatal flaw that leads to their downfall.
The Mandalorian is more like a Western of the Week TV show where you have the drama of the grit, an undercurrent of hope that’s played off the main characters hardships.
Idk. Din being invincible in the show is seemingly irrelevant to me, and not even supported in the content of the show. The first two seasons definitely have space Western episodes though, even if they might not be the more typical main character on the verge of death style ones.
After having just rewatched them all, episode 8 is IMO the only really bad one. It was filled with bad decisions, like those stupid bombers, making enforcing the hierarchical structure of the resistance a major plot point, going from “tracking light jumps is impossible” to “they can only track it from one ship!” like it made any sense at all, both sides of that “chase” failing to use any kind of tactical thinking (why didn’t the resistance fleet scatter if they knew they could only track from one ship? Why didn’t the first order have a few ships use light jumps to cut off the chase? If they could send shuttles this whole time, why not send some for fuel?), Luke deciding because he failed Ben that it’s better to just sit back and let his friends and everything they fought for die, Luke, who refused to fight Vader because he thought there was still good in him, considering killing Ben by turning on his lightsaber while he slept… It’s just a very badly written and produced movie.
Ep 7 wasn’t bad, and ep 9 had some flaws but overall wasn’t bad. They shouldn’t have switched directors (especially to one that seemed to hate what star wars was and wanted to “fix” it), should have had a plan from the start (or maybe even just used the plan Lucas already had for the sequels, though they would have had to use different actors since not much time had passed since RotJ).
They definitely lost me when Luke got hit by a star destroyer cannon and wiped off his shoulder and everyone in the theatre laughed.
I knew at that moment everything I had been feeling my whole life was justified.
Fucking sheeple
The deaths of both Luke and Leia were really dumb. It’s like they were going out of their way to make Leia’s death unpredictable after Fisher died. Episode 8 took 3 good deaths away: the two mentioned above and Finn’s.
Not to mention how the fuck does Rose even catch up to Finn at all when she had turned back and he kept going at full speed intending to kamikaze that cannon but then somehow she’s able to hit him from the side and they both survive the serious collision in barely functional vehicles (after surviving an even bigger collision when one capital ship lightspeeded into another one and it tore open the room they were in–in fucking space!)
And Luke dies from using the force too hard, which is also what kills Leia from sending a message to her son, who in the meantime has been having full conversations with Rey where they see each other and exchange objects between their respective realities.
Episode 8 was just so bad. There’s very little that redeems the movie. Even one of the cooler moments, Ben killing Snoke, was poorly done because a sith Lord should have been able to sense that attack the moment he started turning the lightsaber towards him. It should have been a sudden “lightsaber ignites and then rotates” and even then, Snoke should have had a brief reaction that failed to save him rather than being completely surprised.
And there’s still a lot I haven’t even mentioned.
There are only 6 star wars movies for me and there is one TV show
The Clone wars? The 3d one, I never watched the 2d one
You’re missing out! The Gendi Clone Wars are great! They show a Jedi order at the height of their spectacular star wars powers. It feels a little cheesy and ridiculous but like… In a super charming way like a 40s film serial or 70s kung fu movie
Yeah I’ve watched a tiny bit and ofc samurai jack was amazing,
Yeah this is me taking Phantom Menace story lines over the One And Only Star Wars movie:
Duuuhhhh d’duerrrr doiiiiiiiyyyyy bbbbrrthhhhbtb
Look man, I like the Holiday special too, but there’s no need to be mean about the other obviously inferior movies.
Yeah this is me taking Phantom Menace story lines over the One And Only Star Wars movie:
Aight with you so far
Duuuhhhh d’duerrrr doiiiiiiiyyyyy bbbbrrthhhhbtb
Not a fucking clue how this is supposed to sound
Not a fucking clue how this is supposed to sound
et voilâ:
Is that your JarJar impression?
Who’s JarJar.
I like Star Wars. Not that other stuff.
Okay Holiday Special, obvs, but that’s different.
Both Ewok TV movies?
Oh god no
Maybe he lived nearby a banished group of Sand People, who were banished by the other tribes because they couldn’t aim and shoot well.
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