If you really think that Live Nation needs the first to be toppled… might I introduce you to Nestle? Cargill? Unilever, Bayer. Monsanto. LN might be scummy, and they certainly need to be dealt with, but they’re far from the only thing, and they’re certainly more of a symptom than the problem itself.
“I like to be a gullible idiot that thinks any politician has my interests in front of mind when they go after little scumbags that affect only a handful of Americans instead of talking larger scumbags that also happen to bribe the fuck out of everyone while fucking everyone over!” - you.
See. I can put words in your mouth, too. Compared to nestle, Monsanto, Cargill or Bayer; Live Nation is positively benign.
You’re calling me selfish? You’re the one lacking the awareness that tens of millions of Americans can’t afford food- a crisis to which every company I’ve mentioned has clearly contributed to.
In the list of issues that need to be fixed, Live Nation is a low priority. Or it should be. It’s a distraction so Biden can pretend to do something about the actual megacorpos that are fucking over the world for a quick buck.
Damn fucking straight it’s a fucking whataboutism.
People cannot afford to go to concerts. Oh fucking boo fucking boo.
People can’t afford their groceries or to pay their rent.
You’re acting like going to a concert is a basic fucking necessity.
In case you’re wondering. Yes I am fucking pissed. If Biden was half as concerned about starving families as he was swifts ticket prices… he might not be in a dead heat with an angry, insurrectionist, rapist, racist, misogynistic grifter whose facing over 90 felony indictments.
Damn fucking straight it’s a fucking whataboutism.
You DO know that those are bad, right? That they’re a logical fallacy and just generally a shitty way to argue a point by not arguing it? Clearly you either don’t know or don’t care.
People cannot afford to go to concerts. Oh fucking boo fucking boo.
Guess what? Music is important to the vast majority of people and, unlike you and me, most people prefer to experience it live.
You’re acting like going to a concert is a basic fucking necessity.
Yeah, enjoying life once in a while is crucial to your mental health. Big surprise, I know 🙄
In case you’re wondering. Yes I am fucking pissed.
Good! Nobody reasonable is saying you shouldn’t be.
If Biden was half as concerned about starving families as he was swifts ticket prices…
There you go again… Two things can be wrong independently of each other. Besides, Biden isn’t even the one trying the case, so there’s no way the two things are a zero sum binary.
he might not be in a dead heat with an angry, insurrectionist, rapist, racist, misogynistic grifter whose facing over 90 felony indictments.
Insisting on being the chief supplier of a genocide certainly doesn’t help either. Anyway, still irrelevant.
Biden, and his FTC has limited resources. He’s expending tax-payer-funded effort. It’s a basic cost-benefit analysis I expect better and more prudent decisions from lowest level of supervisors in my management chain.
It’s a fallacy when they’re otherwise unrelated. They’re not unrelated in that going after one precludes the other. The FTC can only handle so many at once- and it’s Biden’s job to give them the top-level direction.
Biden is unwilling or incapable of doing what’s necessary to protect Americans- actual, breathing Americans.
As for experiencing live music… yeah. I get that. There’s plenty of avenues for experiencing live music that don’t involve live nation. You don’t have to go to the top stars; and chances are solid, you’ll like the experience better.
Biden is the one directing the trade commission to go after them, so yes, it’s about Biden and his priorities. Which apparently, American families are not.
Two things can be independently wrong. But as is the entire point I’ve been trying to make, the resources to solve them are limited. Biden, the FTC, doesn’t have the ability to go after everyone.
Nowhere near as limited as you seem to be imagining.
They’re not unrelated in that going after one precludes the other
That’s just categorically false.
Biden is unwilling or incapable of doing what’s necessary to protect Americans- actual, breathing Americans.
I’d be inclined to agree with you on that, but that’s still besides the point.
There’s plenty of avenues for experiencing live music that don’t involve live nation.
No there isn’t. That’s the problem. Bands below a certain level of popularity only get rare booking at low capacity venues and bands above that level almost invariably depend on TM/LN to book larger venues.
The end result is that no matter whose music you prefer, you’re not likely to get to experience it anywhere near as often as you’d like without going bankrupt, unless you’re rich.
You don’t have to go to the top stars; and chances are solid, you’ll like the experience better.
Yeah, sometimes the “top stars” are the favorites of people and/or their peer group. It’s not a fungible thing where if you’re only into punk, a jazz festival will do in a pinch.
Obviously, good music that’s either free or lower cost is dependent on people’s location. I would argue that there is a significant portion of Americans that could find that music if they tried and were willing to go to shows with artists they aren’t familiar with. I personally go to a great local brewery every Thursday evening that features top quality jazz. Many of the performers are professors and/or students from Berklee College of Music. Free.
I don’t think any of those have 80% of their respective markets though. Not defending any of those companies, just saying it isn’t an open and shut case.
And a lot of stuff with Nestle and Cargill in environmental, so it happens outside of the USA afaik
Yet every single one of those affects every
American. Quite possibly everyone across the globe. LN only really affects you if you’re in that industry or go to a concert/events.
Nestle is fucking evil. There’s no other way to put it. They hold so many brands, that they don’t need 80% market share. I doubt very much that any American that wants to seriously boycott them even has a choice.
Same goes with Cargill or Monsanto. Cargill is responsible for a lot of the ag waste generated, being one of the largest producers of beef, and eggs as well as poultry, pork. From producing feed to farms that raise the animals.
Monsanto can literally force farmers to use their seed if any farmer even remotely close also uses their seed. (Ostensibly because gmo seeds are patented and cross pollination violates IP rights).
LN only really affects you if you’re in that industry or go to a concert/events
Yeah, they only affect the business of and most people’s favorite way to enjoy one of the main types of human creative endeavor, no biggie!
Nestle is fucking evil. There’s no other way to put it. They hold so many brands, that they don’t need 80% market share. I doubt very much that any American that wants to seriously boycott them even has a choice.
Absolutely true but also completely beside the point.
Same goes with Cargill or Monsanto. Cargill is responsible for a lot of the ag waste generated, being one of the largest producers of beef, and eggs as well as poultry, pork. From producing feed to farms that raise the animals.
Again, yes, but that ALSO doesn’t make Ticketmaster/Live Nation any better
Monsanto can literally force farmers to use their seed if any farmer even remotely close also uses their seed. (Ostensibly because gmo seeds are patented and cross pollination violates IP rights).
Again true, except Monsanto got bought by Bayer a few years ago. I’ve been unable to find out how much of their evil fuckery they’re still doing under the new name (which is probably because of a deliberate cover job by Bayer), but my guess would be “most, if not all of it”
That STILL doesn’t mean that an effective monopoly should ever be allowed to charge the equivalent of a car for a single concert ticket.
So you’re saying that breaking one of those companies would help fewer people than live nation?
You’re saying that tens of millions of people living with food and housing insecurity is less of a problem than people not being able to afford concert and other tickets?
Explain it to me because you seem to have weird priorities.
I don’t like going to concerts either, but that doesn’t mean I think it’s acceptable that people who want to are charged half their yearly income to go to one.
My problem isn’t the ticket prices - because the groups I go see aren’t hugely popular I’ve never paid more than $30 for a ticket - but the way it hurts artists. Having one conglomerate controlling the ticket sales and the venues means artists have less negotiating power. With the collapse of music sales, most artists make most of their money from touring, and getting screwed by LiveNation means fewer bands touring.
I was actually saying the opposite, that we need more done about income protections so people can afford stuff. “Given all other evidence” meaning the mountains of information we see about inflation…
The problem with concert tickets isn’t inflation. It’s the Live Nation/Ticketmaster monopoly that controls both the venue and the sales vehicle. They own all the best venues, disallow artists to use any other way to sell tickets that aren’t Ticketmaster, and charge both the artists and the consumers exorbitant fees.
They’re making money on both ends of the transaction because of their monopoly on live music.
I didn’t say high ticket prices was inflation. I was explaining my original “evidence” comment was to reflect inflation not “don’t be poor” and now I’m being critiqued for not re-writing the original story in the comments like people seem to want.
I hate Ticketmaster as much as anyone, and think the DOJ should absolutely pursue them, but the fact people can’t afford ticket prices is also because people are stretched financially more than ever before, which is a much bigger issue than just
I’m going to assume someone will now down vote me for not predicting some other third assumption that they will jump to. Great!
We do?
I could care less about the price of concert tickets. Even if I could afford trips regularly, I still wouldn’t. Concerts are like hell to me.
Do you care about monopolies though? Whether it’s concerts or something else, we should all despise monopolies
It’s almost like monopolies are a symptom of the real problem. I wonder what actually causes monopolies?
If you really think that Live Nation needs the first to be toppled… might I introduce you to Nestle? Cargill? Unilever, Bayer. Monsanto. LN might be scummy, and they certainly need to be dealt with, but they’re far from the only thing, and they’re certainly more of a symptom than the problem itself.
“Something good happened? Why wasn’t the thing that happened the best possible thing I can think of?” - You
“I like to be a gullible idiot that thinks any politician has my interests in front of mind when they go after little scumbags that affect only a handful of Americans instead of talking larger scumbags that also happen to bribe the fuck out of everyone while fucking everyone over!” - you.
See. I can put words in your mouth, too. Compared to nestle, Monsanto, Cargill or Bayer; Live Nation is positively benign.
You’re calling me selfish? You’re the one lacking the awareness that tens of millions of Americans can’t afford food- a crisis to which every company I’ve mentioned has clearly contributed to.
In the list of issues that need to be fixed, Live Nation is a low priority. Or it should be. It’s a distraction so Biden can pretend to do something about the actual megacorpos that are fucking over the world for a quick buck.
Were you supposed to be putting words in my mouth in the third paragraph too? I’m not sure I understand the rules to this game
Holy whataboutism, Batman!
Just because other awful companies exist doesn’t mean that Ticketmaster/Live Nation should get to bleed people dry.
And they may be “just” a symptom, but a tumor will kill you just as much as the underlying cancer will.
Damn fucking straight it’s a fucking whataboutism.
People cannot afford to go to concerts. Oh fucking boo fucking boo.
People can’t afford their groceries or to pay their rent.
You’re acting like going to a concert is a basic fucking necessity.
In case you’re wondering. Yes I am fucking pissed. If Biden was half as concerned about starving families as he was swifts ticket prices… he might not be in a dead heat with an angry, insurrectionist, rapist, racist, misogynistic grifter whose facing over 90 felony indictments.
You DO know that those are bad, right? That they’re a logical fallacy and just generally a shitty way to argue a point by not arguing it? Clearly you either don’t know or don’t care.
Guess what? Music is important to the vast majority of people and, unlike you and me, most people prefer to experience it live.
Yeah, enjoying life once in a while is crucial to your mental health. Big surprise, I know 🙄
Good! Nobody reasonable is saying you shouldn’t be.
There you go again… Two things can be wrong independently of each other. Besides, Biden isn’t even the one trying the case, so there’s no way the two things are a zero sum binary.
Insisting on being the chief supplier of a genocide certainly doesn’t help either. Anyway, still irrelevant.
Biden, and his FTC has limited resources. He’s expending tax-payer-funded effort. It’s a basic cost-benefit analysis I expect better and more prudent decisions from lowest level of supervisors in my management chain.
It’s a fallacy when they’re otherwise unrelated. They’re not unrelated in that going after one precludes the other. The FTC can only handle so many at once- and it’s Biden’s job to give them the top-level direction.
Biden is unwilling or incapable of doing what’s necessary to protect Americans- actual, breathing Americans.
As for experiencing live music… yeah. I get that. There’s plenty of avenues for experiencing live music that don’t involve live nation. You don’t have to go to the top stars; and chances are solid, you’ll like the experience better.
Biden is the one directing the trade commission to go after them, so yes, it’s about Biden and his priorities. Which apparently, American families are not.
Two things can be independently wrong. But as is the entire point I’ve been trying to make, the resources to solve them are limited. Biden, the FTC, doesn’t have the ability to go after everyone.
Nowhere near as limited as you seem to be imagining.
That’s just categorically false.
I’d be inclined to agree with you on that, but that’s still besides the point.
No there isn’t. That’s the problem. Bands below a certain level of popularity only get rare booking at low capacity venues and bands above that level almost invariably depend on TM/LN to book larger venues.
The end result is that no matter whose music you prefer, you’re not likely to get to experience it anywhere near as often as you’d like without going bankrupt, unless you’re rich.
Yeah, sometimes the “top stars” are the favorites of people and/or their peer group. It’s not a fungible thing where if you’re only into punk, a jazz festival will do in a pinch.
Obviously, good music that’s either free or lower cost is dependent on people’s location. I would argue that there is a significant portion of Americans that could find that music if they tried and were willing to go to shows with artists they aren’t familiar with. I personally go to a great local brewery every Thursday evening that features top quality jazz. Many of the performers are professors and/or students from Berklee College of Music. Free.
I don’t think any of those have 80% of their respective markets though. Not defending any of those companies, just saying it isn’t an open and shut case.
And a lot of stuff with Nestle and Cargill in environmental, so it happens outside of the USA afaik
Yet every single one of those affects every American. Quite possibly everyone across the globe. LN only really affects you if you’re in that industry or go to a concert/events.
Nestle is fucking evil. There’s no other way to put it. They hold so many brands, that they don’t need 80% market share. I doubt very much that any American that wants to seriously boycott them even has a choice.
Same goes with Cargill or Monsanto. Cargill is responsible for a lot of the ag waste generated, being one of the largest producers of beef, and eggs as well as poultry, pork. From producing feed to farms that raise the animals.
Monsanto can literally force farmers to use their seed if any farmer even remotely close also uses their seed. (Ostensibly because gmo seeds are patented and cross pollination violates IP rights).
Yeah, they only affect the business of and most people’s favorite way to enjoy one of the main types of human creative endeavor, no biggie!
Absolutely true but also completely beside the point.
Again, yes, but that ALSO doesn’t make Ticketmaster/Live Nation any better
Again true, except Monsanto got bought by Bayer a few years ago. I’ve been unable to find out how much of their evil fuckery they’re still doing under the new name (which is probably because of a deliberate cover job by Bayer), but my guess would be “most, if not all of it”
That STILL doesn’t mean that an effective monopoly should ever be allowed to charge the equivalent of a car for a single concert ticket.
deleted by creator
You don’t recall correctly:
As a side note, I had no idea they were that old!
Yup, deleted my comment, thanks!
Missing the point. Again.
Run the cost. Benefit analysis. Each of those mega corps affect every American every day. And not in any positive way.
Nope, I got your point just fine. You’re just wrong.
Oh?
So you’re saying that breaking one of those companies would help fewer people than live nation?
You’re saying that tens of millions of people living with food and housing insecurity is less of a problem than people not being able to afford concert and other tickets?
Explain it to me because you seem to have weird priorities.
As if Monsanto weren’t evil enough, they were acquired by Bayer in 2018.
I don’t like going to concerts either, but that doesn’t mean I think it’s acceptable that people who want to are charged half their yearly income to go to one.
My problem isn’t the ticket prices - because the groups I go see aren’t hugely popular I’ve never paid more than $30 for a ticket - but the way it hurts artists. Having one conglomerate controlling the ticket sales and the venues means artists have less negotiating power. With the collapse of music sales, most artists make most of their money from touring, and getting screwed by LiveNation means fewer bands touring.
My problem is both tbh. Thanks for bringing up the other half of the suck sandwich that everyone had neglected mentioning until now.
Seems like an income problem given all other evidence tbh
“I can’t afford to have fun at these exploitative prices”
“Have you tried just being rich?”
I was actually saying the opposite, that we need more done about income protections so people can afford stuff. “Given all other evidence” meaning the mountains of information we see about inflation…
The problem with concert tickets isn’t inflation. It’s the Live Nation/Ticketmaster monopoly that controls both the venue and the sales vehicle. They own all the best venues, disallow artists to use any other way to sell tickets that aren’t Ticketmaster, and charge both the artists and the consumers exorbitant fees.
They’re making money on both ends of the transaction because of their monopoly on live music.
I didn’t say high ticket prices was inflation. I was explaining my original “evidence” comment was to reflect inflation not “don’t be poor” and now I’m being critiqued for not re-writing the original story in the comments like people seem to want.
I hate Ticketmaster as much as anyone, and think the DOJ should absolutely pursue them, but the fact people can’t afford ticket prices is also because people are stretched financially more than ever before, which is a much bigger issue than just
I’m going to assume someone will now down vote me for not predicting some other third assumption that they will jump to. Great!
Expensive hell. Not only do you get to suffer, you have to pay heavily for the privilege!
Dear America… | David Mitchell’s Soapbox
David Mitchell is the best pedant ever 😆❤️
i can see that based on how much you’ve argued against lowering ticket prices