I can’t speak for other kids, but being honest with mine seems to work pretty well. “Why do I have to put away the dishes?” “Because if you don’t, we won’t be able to wash the dirty ones and then we’ll get roaches. Do you want roaches? No. So put away the dishes.”
Yeah, that’s the tack I’m taking with mine. No sense in lying because it’s not good for your relationship, and I can’t be bothered to keep track of a bunch of lies.
In their house, my sister is already using the threat of Christmas big brother against any minor hijinks that their kid gets up to.
Oof, that seems a bit much to me. Does she tell stories about the bogeymen or Baba Yaga, too? I’d rather my child be concerned with the actual consequences for their actions rather than the imagined ones
There’s some research that says Santa, the Easter bunny, etc. are good for teaching kids skepticism. Plus it’s fun. I’ll often move their stuffed animals so it looks like they were doing something when the kids are asleep so they can get a little bit of magic
But, threatening with Santa is actually bad parenting because #1 it’s a bit traumatic of a threat but #2 they’ll figure out damn fast that you’re bluffing. Never threaten a punishment you aren’t prepared to dish out (and never dish out a punishment you wouldn’t feel comfortable explaining to the kid as an adult)
Not at all, but I’m also not stumped by having the sink full so much that I’m literally not capable of washing the dishes lmao. A kid might believe that since kids are fucking idiots but not an adult, surely
It takes a lot longer to wash if you go that route. If you don’t have enough time for that, then you can’t do it without foregoing your other responsibilities. That qualifies as “can’t”. It’s a lie as much as telling elementary school kids that the sky is blue is a lie. We simplify things because kids don’t have the ability to follow all the complex interactions between everything going on in their lives.
I’m not sure if the term “gaslighting” fits here. This just seems like run of the mill lying and manipulating.
Victims of gaslighting are deliberately and systematically fed false information that leads them to question what they know to be true, often about themselves. They may end up doubting their memory, their perception, and even their sanity.
Gaslighting would seem like it’d be more that if they knew weekends were a thing befohand then you’d lie that they imagined it all (and that they might even be crazy for having thought that).
Young kids are extremely receptive to self-fullfilling prophecies, and very flexible. If they hate school, it’s better to find out why and try to see if you can get them to like school. You can kinda trick them by trying to associate school with fun, talk about how much you enjoyed school as a kid, and try to get them to talk about things they did that they liked at school. Or the flip side is maybe you’ll learn that there’s something serious you need to help handle as a parent
Falsely threatening your toddler with taking away their weekends is a “white lie”? Why parent using fear and deception? Why not actually working on helping them manage their own feelings/emotions/needs without punishment looming over them?
All this kind of stuff does is teach them that they shouldn’t do “bad” stuff when they’re likely to lose something from doing so… which usually becomes “I can do ‘bad’ stuff as long as I’m unlikely to face punishment for it or as long as the reward outweighs the punishment”.
Telling these lies to your kids and other forms of manipulation also usually makes them more distrustful of you and less likely to be open to you when they start to become more socially/emotionally intelligent.
Lying and punishment (or threatening punishment) are both generally counterproductive/destructive when it comes to human parenting and encourage developing troublesome behaviour patterns. It’s usually lazy or poor parenting (something that even good parents are susceptible to doing, being imperfect and all), and unfortunately most parents use it as their primary method of dealing with behaviour they don’t want. Especially with neurodivergent children, who are affected significantly worse by this form of parenting.
Something relevant is that rewards are significantly more complicated and require a lot more consideration on how they may affect the child’s performance based on motivation – too much, too regular, or incorrectly placed extrinsic motivation can have a negative effect on performance when there otherwise would have been enough intrinsic motivation, and you don’t want a child to end up expecting an extrinsic reward or relying on extrinsic rewards for motivation. In that case, the lack of a reward may then start to discourage good behaviour (or discourage limiting destructive behaviour). You also don’t want the child to tie their personal self-worth to the thing you’re rewarding, then they have feelings of shame when they can’t meet those expectations, and they become paranoid about meeting them. This is a problem commonly caused by evaluative praise/non-descriptive praise which focuses on outcome rather than the process and assigns a “good” or “bad” label to the result of actions, as opposed to descriptive praise which is neutral and encourages constructive self-reflection.
Two good books addressing issues with deceptive & manipulative parenting and the methods which are beneficial in the long-term are Unconditional Parenting and Punished By Rewards (Alfie Kohn)
In many situations where a child’s having an outburst that’s negatively affecting others in an attempt to gain something (like attention), it may be better to have them take a break (as in temporarily separate them from the people they’re bothering) in a non-punishing way (so not a “time-out” or total isolation/deprivation of stimulation) while staying calm and not speaking/behaving harshly, not lie to them that they’ll incur a loss. You may even be able to have a conversation with them afterwards about their emotions and why they feel their actions would get them what they wanted or needed, but sometimes too much conversation can actually have the effect of a reward if your child was seeking attention by doing the negative behaviour, so it can sometimes be more productive to keep your message short and simple – calmly/non-aggressively conveying that this behaviour won’t get them what they need. Actively managing attention and making sure it’s not used as a reward nor as a punishment can be very hard, you can give or divest attention without even realizing it, but it pays off a lot in the long-term. Kids aren’t adult-levels of emotionally mature and have very little impulse control, but they’re not irrational or (emotionally) unintelligent either, despite that being the common belief.
Really a lot of these problems with addressing unwanted behaviour stem from the lack of widespread & accessible science-based parental education. For a lot of parents, the only guides they’re receptive to are (usually religious fundamentalist and/or for-profit) garbage mommyblogs and Facebook parenting groups, plus whatever their family or friends tells them is right. Most parents are basically winging it with little to no training or education, which is a recipe for a bunch of fucked up and traumatized future adults. It’s hard to understand the long-term consequences of your actions if you were never taught about them in the first place, and especially so when contradictory ideas like “punishment/reward is the right way to parent” and “kids are our property and less human than us” is so deeply ingrained in our culture.
Sure, I fantasize about doing this sort of shit with my kid sometimes too.
But you don’t do it.
What, are you saying that gaslighting your young child to do stuff they hate is harmful?
I can’t speak for other kids, but being honest with mine seems to work pretty well. “Why do I have to put away the dishes?” “Because if you don’t, we won’t be able to wash the dirty ones and then we’ll get roaches. Do you want roaches? No. So put away the dishes.”
Yeah, that’s the tack I’m taking with mine. No sense in lying because it’s not good for your relationship, and I can’t be bothered to keep track of a bunch of lies.
I didn’t even like doing Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, but my wife insisted. I’m glad that era is over.
Feel you. I got accused by my brother in law of being some kind of psychopath for not wanting Santa in the house.
In their house, my sister is already using the threat of Christmas big brother against any minor hijinks that their kid gets up to.
I have a three year old, so unfortunately, I have another 4 years of this nonsense ahead of me.
Oof, that seems a bit much to me. Does she tell stories about the bogeymen or Baba Yaga, too? I’d rather my child be concerned with the actual consequences for their actions rather than the imagined ones
There’s some research that says Santa, the Easter bunny, etc. are good for teaching kids skepticism. Plus it’s fun. I’ll often move their stuffed animals so it looks like they were doing something when the kids are asleep so they can get a little bit of magic
But, threatening with Santa is actually bad parenting because #1 it’s a bit traumatic of a threat but #2 they’ll figure out damn fast that you’re bluffing. Never threaten a punishment you aren’t prepared to dish out (and never dish out a punishment you wouldn’t feel comfortable explaining to the kid as an adult)
Yeah, it’s not the very idea of Santa I’m railing against here, it’s using him as a bogeyman to control behaviour.
Do you have to be in every single thread picking fights with people over the dumbest shit?
You think I’m picking a fight with @Passerby6497? By saying that I agree with what they’re doing?
But you would still be able to wash the dirty ones. This is just a lighter lie (which imo is totally fine).
Where would I put the dirty dishes so I could wash them if the sink is already full?
How about somewhere else for the moment?? LOL
You must have a large kitchen.
Not at all, but I’m also not stumped by having the sink full so much that I’m literally not capable of washing the dishes lmao. A kid might believe that since kids are fucking idiots but not an adult, surely
Then you must have a large sink or you must wash dishes every single time you eat rather than once a day. We don’t have time for that.
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New fone who dis
It takes a lot longer to wash if you go that route. If you don’t have enough time for that, then you can’t do it without foregoing your other responsibilities. That qualifies as “can’t”. It’s a lie as much as telling elementary school kids that the sky is blue is a lie. We simplify things because kids don’t have the ability to follow all the complex interactions between everything going on in their lives.
I’m not sure if the term “gaslighting” fits here. This just seems like run of the mill lying and manipulating.
Gaslighting would seem like it’d be more that if they knew weekends were a thing befohand then you’d lie that they imagined it all (and that they might even be crazy for having thought that).
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Omg! You are such a gaslighting narcissist! Your strawman whataboutism is triggering my OCD, PTSD, and LMNOP!
Did I miss any classics?
its called a white lie. You tell kids them all the time
Sure… If you want to seriously undermine any trust you’ve built up with your kid when they’re older.
Tell kids the truth when they’re older, but you cant reason with a young kid about everything.
That doesn’t mean you have to lie. Just tell them they have to go to school, and that’s that. Don’t make up a story to manipulate them.
…and then they’ll never trust you fully again. Ever.
This is the most shortsighted shit I’ve seen in a long time.
Young kids are extremely receptive to self-fullfilling prophecies, and very flexible. If they hate school, it’s better to find out why and try to see if you can get them to like school. You can kinda trick them by trying to associate school with fun, talk about how much you enjoyed school as a kid, and try to get them to talk about things they did that they liked at school. Or the flip side is maybe you’ll learn that there’s something serious you need to help handle as a parent
That’s not a white lie. It’s just a lie.
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Falsely threatening your toddler with taking away their weekends is a “white lie”? Why parent using fear and deception? Why not actually working on helping them manage their own feelings/emotions/needs without punishment looming over them?
All this kind of stuff does is teach them that they shouldn’t do “bad” stuff when they’re likely to lose something from doing so… which usually becomes “I can do ‘bad’ stuff as long as I’m unlikely to face punishment for it or as long as the reward outweighs the punishment”.
Telling these lies to your kids and other forms of manipulation also usually makes them more distrustful of you and less likely to be open to you when they start to become more socially/emotionally intelligent.
Lying and punishment (or threatening punishment) are both generally counterproductive/destructive when it comes to human parenting and encourage developing troublesome behaviour patterns. It’s usually lazy or poor parenting (something that even good parents are susceptible to doing, being imperfect and all), and unfortunately most parents use it as their primary method of dealing with behaviour they don’t want. Especially with neurodivergent children, who are affected significantly worse by this form of parenting.
Something relevant is that rewards are significantly more complicated and require a lot more consideration on how they may affect the child’s performance based on motivation – too much, too regular, or incorrectly placed extrinsic motivation can have a negative effect on performance when there otherwise would have been enough intrinsic motivation, and you don’t want a child to end up expecting an extrinsic reward or relying on extrinsic rewards for motivation. In that case, the lack of a reward may then start to discourage good behaviour (or discourage limiting destructive behaviour). You also don’t want the child to tie their personal self-worth to the thing you’re rewarding, then they have feelings of shame when they can’t meet those expectations, and they become paranoid about meeting them. This is a problem commonly caused by evaluative praise/non-descriptive praise which focuses on outcome rather than the process and assigns a “good” or “bad” label to the result of actions, as opposed to descriptive praise which is neutral and encourages constructive self-reflection.
Two good books addressing issues with deceptive & manipulative parenting and the methods which are beneficial in the long-term are Unconditional Parenting and Punished By Rewards (Alfie Kohn)
In many situations where a child’s having an outburst that’s negatively affecting others in an attempt to gain something (like attention), it may be better to have them take a break (as in temporarily separate them from the people they’re bothering) in a non-punishing way (so not a “time-out” or total isolation/deprivation of stimulation) while staying calm and not speaking/behaving harshly, not lie to them that they’ll incur a loss. You may even be able to have a conversation with them afterwards about their emotions and why they feel their actions would get them what they wanted or needed, but sometimes too much conversation can actually have the effect of a reward if your child was seeking attention by doing the negative behaviour, so it can sometimes be more productive to keep your message short and simple – calmly/non-aggressively conveying that this behaviour won’t get them what they need. Actively managing attention and making sure it’s not used as a reward nor as a punishment can be very hard, you can give or divest attention without even realizing it, but it pays off a lot in the long-term. Kids aren’t adult-levels of emotionally mature and have very little impulse control, but they’re not irrational or (emotionally) unintelligent either, despite that being the common belief.
Really a lot of these problems with addressing unwanted behaviour stem from the lack of widespread & accessible science-based parental education. For a lot of parents, the only guides they’re receptive to are (usually religious fundamentalist and/or for-profit) garbage mommyblogs and Facebook parenting groups, plus whatever their family or friends tells them is right. Most parents are basically winging it with little to no training or education, which is a recipe for a bunch of fucked up and traumatized future adults. It’s hard to understand the long-term consequences of your actions if you were never taught about them in the first place, and especially so when contradictory ideas like “punishment/reward is the right way to parent” and “kids are our property and less human than us” is so deeply ingrained in our culture.
Santa isn’t real and neither is the Easter bunny, and yet you survived this ultimate deception.
Do like every other 4 years old: grow up.