I was listening to German news this morning, and you could hear the anchor drooling when they were speaking about Israel’s invasion of Lebanon. Like, holy fuck, can we stop pretending all of this is normal and okay?
Last year, Yair Netanyahu, son of former Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, became the literal poster boy for the German right-wing party Alternative für Deutschland (AfD).
Netanyahu’s eldest son had provoked controversy when he called for the abolition of the “evil” European Union, which, he argued, was an enemy to Israel and “all European Christian countries.”
Far-right support for Israel is not unique to Germany but is developing across Europe. Alongside the AfD’s Alice Weidel, far-right leaders like Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, Marine Le Pen in France, Nigel Farage in the UK, and Viktor Orbán in Hungary have all openly sided with Israel.
Oh. So the intersections between Russia and Israel are even bigger than I thought.
Frankly IMHO Russia, Turkey, Azerbaijan and Israel are in fact a system (maybe even a de-facto alliance) allowing them to be “in different blocks”, but work for the same interest. It’s not very well hidden though, Israel wouldn’t have fuel, steel and textile without Turkey, Turkey would be the main target of justified hate and freedom fighters on ME without Israel, Azerbaijan would quickly find its forgotten place without Russia, Russia wouldn’t entertain its corridors and logistics ambitions without Azerbaijan (and also power projection via its hands but with western military tech), Turkey wouldn’t have leverage on western countries without Russia, and Russia would have less power to stir shit up without Turkey.
A bit similar to how Armenia and Georgia are sort of a micro-system, where together they won’t be immediately eaten by countries from the previous list. But with them it’s clearly visible - if Azeris\Turks\Russians press Armenia down enough, they don’t need Georgia, if they press Georgia down enough, they don’t need Armenia. Both are very close to happening and would mean the end of both countries, unless somebody intervenes militarily, which is unlikely.
You have basically two sites. One loves the fact that Arabs and Jews kill each other and want the war to continue. They support ending German aid to Palestine and so forth. The other wants to end US warmongering in the region, caused by US support of Islamic terrorist in attacking Israel. Yes I did not mix that up, the US according to some in the AFD Biden supports Hamas.
Thanks for this. I have a German friend that can’t talk about this without whining about how it’s upsetting and oh the jewish people in Germany are reminded of the holocaust and they’re afraid now and Hamas aren’t perfect victims and nobody is allowed to protest because protests are antisemitic so we just have to let Israel flatten Palestine and continue their apartheid with our tax dollars. And oh man I don’t really know anything about it but I still disagree with you and my perfect english is suddenly not good enough to explain my non position because everyone just wants to be right.
I stopped talking to that German friend, but I’d like to know how to get past that brick wall if we ever do talk again.
The other one is looking at the situation from an Israeli perspective. Iran is the most open anti Israel country right now. A lot of other countries in the region, do not like Iran either and are somewhat willing to work together with Israel. That is Saudi Arabia for example. The issue is that the situation in Palestine is preventing that alliance from forming. So a deal with the Palestinians gives Israel greater security in the region as well. If done right that would only mean the northern border to Lebanon and Syria is challenged.
you believe a random internet comment more than your “friend”?
you’re ridiculing him for not being able to explain his position in his non-native language and you’re accusing him of “just wants to be right”
I honestly think it’s better if you don’t talk to him again.
Anyways, there’s a rise in antisemitic crimes, there’s a lot of antisemitic rethoric during these protests and they’re covertly used to spread anti-semitic, pro-iranian talking-points. Your friend is right.
I’ll be sure to let you know when I start taking advice from lemmy on my personal relationships.
He was using “everyone just wants to be right” as an excuse to shut down. His very weak rationalizations to not take a stance yet reject any advocacy for the humanity of palestinians were very transparent and I found it both disgusting and insulting. He would claim he didn’t know enough, to not know “what does Hamas even want”, but told me he’d have to see my sources on everything I tried to explain to him. Especially when I told him about Israel’s lies of sexual violence that occurred October 7th (which was his main talking point, “you don’t rape people”. Well, there’s not a shred of evidence that they did) and then threatened to mute our chat for sending these sources without reading or viewing them because they were “too long” or cited a tweet at some point, and I assume he did mute me but idk cause that’s where things ended.
I understand that antisemitism is rising. That is happening everywhere. You also have the AFD on the rise (which he denied). That can hardly be blamed on Palestinian activists. If anything, Israel is to blame for manufacturing the situation. Fascists co-opting the movement because they want to see both sides destroy each other is hardly any reason to continue funding Israel as they wage a genocidal war, nor is it one to shut down any democratic process on the matter. They are poisoning the discourse and you are playing right into it.
And no, I refuse to accept your framing that anything Iran does is automatically bad, antisemitic, or out of proportion to the situation. Israel is no more righteous in this than they are and is actively provoking a regional conflict with weapons that we are providing.
You’ve got an Israeli flag near your nickname, so my algorithm of getting such yields better results than yours apparently. They are not worth it, find an Artsakh flag.
No, not just from that, but I’m not comfortable with Germany as a whole. Pretty cannibalistic opinions come from Germans on the Web sometimes, I don’t like German fashion and manner of discussion, being part Jewish - they often support most shameful things to me, being part Armenian - they often think that decency can be replaced with Israel worship.
And a few German politicians I’d like to see hanged.
I was listening to German news this morning, and you could hear the anchor drooling when they were speaking about Israel’s invasion of Lebanon. Like, holy fuck, can we stop pretending all of this is normal and okay?
Well Germany is slipping into fascism with the AFD too.
Is AFD pro-Israel?
Most European far right parties are backed by israel
2021 - Far-Right Parties in Europe Have Become Zionism’s Greatest Backers
Oh. So the intersections between Russia and Israel are even bigger than I thought.
Frankly IMHO Russia, Turkey, Azerbaijan and Israel are in fact a system (maybe even a de-facto alliance) allowing them to be “in different blocks”, but work for the same interest. It’s not very well hidden though, Israel wouldn’t have fuel, steel and textile without Turkey, Turkey would be the main target of justified hate and freedom fighters on ME without Israel, Azerbaijan would quickly find its forgotten place without Russia, Russia wouldn’t entertain its corridors and logistics ambitions without Azerbaijan (and also power projection via its hands but with western military tech), Turkey wouldn’t have leverage on western countries without Russia, and Russia would have less power to stir shit up without Turkey.
A bit similar to how Armenia and Georgia are sort of a micro-system, where together they won’t be immediately eaten by countries from the previous list. But with them it’s clearly visible - if Azeris\Turks\Russians press Armenia down enough, they don’t need Georgia, if they press Georgia down enough, they don’t need Armenia. Both are very close to happening and would mean the end of both countries, unless somebody intervenes militarily, which is unlikely.
You have basically two sites. One loves the fact that Arabs and Jews kill each other and want the war to continue. They support ending German aid to Palestine and so forth. The other wants to end US warmongering in the region, caused by US support of Islamic terrorist in attacking Israel. Yes I did not mix that up, the US according to some in the AFD Biden supports Hamas.
But afaik they support continuing aid to Israel. That ensures the greatest suffering inflicted on the greatest number of muslims
Thanks for this. I have a German friend that can’t talk about this without whining about how it’s upsetting and oh the jewish people in Germany are reminded of the holocaust and they’re afraid now and Hamas aren’t perfect victims and nobody is allowed to protest because protests are antisemitic so we just have to let Israel flatten Palestine and continue their apartheid with our tax dollars. And oh man I don’t really know anything about it but I still disagree with you and my perfect english is suddenly not good enough to explain my non position because everyone just wants to be right.
I stopped talking to that German friend, but I’d like to know how to get past that brick wall if we ever do talk again.
Israels support of Hamas is a pretty good starting point. That one pretty clearly shows, how the Israeli government continues that situation.
The other one is looking at the situation from an Israeli perspective. Iran is the most open anti Israel country right now. A lot of other countries in the region, do not like Iran either and are somewhat willing to work together with Israel. That is Saudi Arabia for example. The issue is that the situation in Palestine is preventing that alliance from forming. So a deal with the Palestinians gives Israel greater security in the region as well. If done right that would only mean the northern border to Lebanon and Syria is challenged.
Well I already tried the first thing and he didn’t believe me.
That’s an interesting perspective though, I’ll have to think on that. Thanks!
so…
you believe a random internet comment more than your “friend”?
you’re ridiculing him for not being able to explain his position in his non-native language and you’re accusing him of “just wants to be right”
I honestly think it’s better if you don’t talk to him again.
Anyways, there’s a rise in antisemitic crimes, there’s a lot of antisemitic rethoric during these protests and they’re covertly used to spread anti-semitic, pro-iranian talking-points. Your friend is right.
I recommend these two: https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/117974-000-A/das-system-hamas/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84gsvAKzxbg&pp=ygULc3RyZyBmIGlyYW4%3D
provided you’re actually interested in the topic and dont “just wants to be right”
I’ll be sure to let you know when I start taking advice from lemmy on my personal relationships.
He was using “everyone just wants to be right” as an excuse to shut down. His very weak rationalizations to not take a stance yet reject any advocacy for the humanity of palestinians were very transparent and I found it both disgusting and insulting. He would claim he didn’t know enough, to not know “what does Hamas even want”, but told me he’d have to see my sources on everything I tried to explain to him. Especially when I told him about Israel’s lies of sexual violence that occurred October 7th (which was his main talking point, “you don’t rape people”. Well, there’s not a shred of evidence that they did) and then threatened to mute our chat for sending these sources without reading or viewing them because they were “too long” or cited a tweet at some point, and I assume he did mute me but idk cause that’s where things ended.
I understand that antisemitism is rising. That is happening everywhere. You also have the AFD on the rise (which he denied). That can hardly be blamed on Palestinian activists. If anything, Israel is to blame for manufacturing the situation. Fascists co-opting the movement because they want to see both sides destroy each other is hardly any reason to continue funding Israel as they wage a genocidal war, nor is it one to shut down any democratic process on the matter. They are poisoning the discourse and you are playing right into it.
And no, I refuse to accept your framing that anything Iran does is automatically bad, antisemitic, or out of proportion to the situation. Israel is no more righteous in this than they are and is actively provoking a regional conflict with weapons that we are providing.
OK, I wasn’t sure about German politics and thought that maybe AFD is not so bad, if they are against the establishment and so on.
Now I’m sure they are the same shit, just boiled.
you’re getting your political information/opinion from a social media thread??
no, they’re really that bad. They wanted to sink ships with immigrants, they demanded a “180° turn in our rememberance-culture about the third Reich”
You’ve got an Israeli flag near your nickname, so my algorithm of getting such yields better results than yours apparently. They are not worth it, find an Artsakh flag.
No, not just from that, but I’m not comfortable with Germany as a whole. Pretty cannibalistic opinions come from Germans on the Web sometimes, I don’t like German fashion and manner of discussion, being part Jewish - they often support most shameful things to me, being part Armenian - they often think that decency can be replaced with Israel worship.
And a few German politicians I’d like to see hanged.
They are not against the Establishment. They are the German Trump-Party.